McLaren P14 spy shots

You can thank the Countach for that. Doors that go up, long and wedge shaped... things like this are the quintessential characteristics of "exoitic" and "fast." Ask a kid to draw and exotic car, and it will probably be a wedge shape with a giant spoiler and doors that don't open in a normal way.

When people see something seemingly unique/exotic, they immediately think of the brand that defined it, which is Lamborghini.

Ferrari is fancy/luxurious/high-end; Lamborghini is exotic/wild/crazy.

 

I'm with you, the design isn't the strongest part of the McLarens, but it's not that bad that you wouldn't buy this car. I see the advantage of these cars in their core technology, their superior performance capabilities and their excellent driving behavior. The design is for a super car attractive and unique enough, but not leading. However, McLaren is on a good and successful way, and maybe they will also once receive to design such a design perl like the Dino. We all know that design is depending on a lot of luck.

 

Personally, I think Mayor is overstating things a bit - 'lazy' is probably not the right word. After all, what noone says about most mid engined cars being basically similar is definitely correct - the layout determines much of that. And I suspect if anyone is going to try hard McLaren is.

In fact, the opposite of lazy is what I think the problem is. There is not enough discipline, or perhaps confidence. The link from 430 to 12C is evident to me, as is the link from 458 to this P14 mule. While neither car looks like the Ferrari equivalent, some of the design themes are certainly similar.

When you look down noone's first picture list, and then get to the mule, it seems to reinforce how ungainly it is. It is unbalanced and comparatively ugly. No doubt it will be made to look presentable with lovely paint, wheels and other finishes. But the underlying shape will not be pretty. Just like some of the forms various Ferraris have taken over the years - Mondial, 400, 430 as just a few examples - they were appealing enough cars but not pretty from a design perspective. Other brands have been similarly afflicted too; the great Countach is not pretty (and very compromised to boot), the 959 was so over styled it made the beautiful 911 into something not, the Enzo (I know, Ferrari again) was striking and purposeful but certainly not beautiful, the SLR was not especially balanced though still sort of pretty (if you squint), the original Virage was a brute. Plenty of others, and all of it subjective I suppose.

McLaren have made some nice designs too. The 570 GT is extremely alluring in the flesh, I liked my 12C although 'beautiful' is maybe not quite right. The P1 is both aggressive and attractive, don't much like the front but at least it was designed for that car and didn't diminish the overall effect. By the time it was put on the 650, no thanks.

The P14 leaked shots show a car that does not have the same design language at all (always given that there are built in similarities to any car built on a mid V8 platform). Without being told it was a McLaren, only the rear lights and the 'armadillo' piece in the transmission area help me to recognise it as a Mac.

It seems to be a mix of trying too hard and incorporating good ideas from other brands such as Ferrari and Audi. It must be too early to judge, and hopefully they're having a laugh back in Woking at what's being said about a car that is nothing like the real thing. Because all those people on McLife who claim to have seen drawings and confirmed it as being spectacular led me to believe it will be much better than that picture.

I'm happy to be told I'm wrong. If so, help me to understand what they are trying to do?

 

Well, the mule is a mule and possibly not even the actual body. You can even see the painted body underneath the panels as well, front and back. Some stuff is probably finished on it, but until we see it finally announced, it's hard to say what will change.

A member on here, Whoopsy, said he talked to FS the other day at some event and that the front-end is not the real front end.

 

The front is the worst part so my view could possibly change if it is not real. More so if the rear arrangement is similarly inaccurate. The side is probably ok, excepting its similarity to the 458, which I wouldn't be too bothered about.

 

P14 IMHO screams Mcl; not a bad thing, but not as good looking as a Ferrari. I've never owned either car nor do I own one now. Just my opinion.

 

Im going to have to agree with you on this one

I cant tell any of the McLarens apart without spending a few seconds looking at them. Of course I say the same thing re: 458 to 488.

A great design doesnt require seconds to identify. It happens before you think about it. Instantaneously.

I dont know that its lazy. i think its intentional. I think they are building a family brand BUT I think they are being far too conservative doing it.

Like you, Ive been a professional designer going on 30 years now. So what do I know !

 

My god those mclarens are ugly. I know its subjective, and a lot of modern cars arent beautiful, and I know they're fast, but theyre just awful looking imo.

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You're either definitely exaggerating or it's because you simply don't know the models in the first place. I would never in a million years even confuse a 991 for a 997, let alone a 488 or a 458. To confuse cars like this, you'd have to be looking a feature less flat area that just happens to be painted red on both cars. Then again, if you showed me some 1960s Ferraris I'd have no clue what is what because I just don't follow old Ferrari. Same with modern BMWs or Hondas.

The idea that you couldn't tell one McLaren from another without thinking about it is simply untrue.

 

I think it's important to put all exotic cars in the context of the real world as well. Exotics look 10x better in the real world and with real paint (and we all know McLaren has some of the best paint in the entire industry). I don't think the 12C is the most exciting design in the world, but just today I had it parked on the street in my friends normal, middle-class neighborhood and it looked absolutely insane on the street with all the reflections and normal cars. When parked next to an Aventador in a parking lot or by it self in front of a mansion, you lose the context of what the real world is actually like.

I'm of the opinion that most McLarens do not photograph well at all, but when you're looking at them from eye level in the real world, even the tamest design and color is wild looking.

Needless to say, I was watching football in his living room, and my friend was constantly telling me all the expression of people walking by it and taking pictures of it. From kids running down the street with their phones out, to even adults taking pictures and saying how gorgeous it is.

No exotic is ugly looking. Even the people that say such an such car is ugly, really are exaggerating to the extreme. Even an FF isn't "ugly." It's probably one of the "ugliest" modern exotics ever created, but it still looks better than 99.999% of cars ever made.

 

@noone1 - you are doing a good job describing mclaren.

Don't know how you have the energy to go back and forth with the people on these forums though.

 

What a polarizing thread. Lots of strong opinions going both ways.

 

Anyone who can't tell a 650 from a 570 is gotta be blind or stupid. Just sayin thats a dumb argument.

 

Mr. Noone 1 can't see the forest from the trees.

You're too close to understand the issue.

 

You can look at any ONE thing and find something similar or different. But it's the total visual package that matters.

 

You know I don't think these cars are ugly. In fact, I've said the 570s is extremely attractive many times. And the P1 does have a presence that makes it a super car.

But they all start to look alike now to me, and I don't think that's a good idea.

 

Iike I said...

 

Ok Mayor, then how about an opinion from a Ferrari fan boy on your thoughts regarding design? If you really are a designer I would have to say you must be a very bad one. Or just one who got into the profession by paying somebody a lot of money under the table. Or doing something very naughty under said table. Please do this forum a favor and, in a world where free speech is a given right, try to keep your design opinions to yourself. You embarrass this community with such verbal doodoo. I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings, it's just a humble opinion that I have each time I read your posts, especially regarding design. Now get back to your Kool-Aid and Froot Loops.

 

On a forum that is supposed to encourage debate and opinion, you want him to cease posting his opinion?

How about I ask you to cease posting yours? Do this forum a favour maybe?

See how that line of flawed logic works yet?

 

Yes, I'd really like that he cease posting his opinion. Would you please help me to convince him that he should at least consider it? Many thanks in advance.

 

Yes, I sort of agree but these designers do not have the restriction that the men doing the Toyota Corolla do. These are super cars and have the opportunity to be super at everything because packaging and materials and design do no-the suffer from the same restrictions as with mundane cars.

By definition, exotic cars are rare and more unique. I own an FF. I like it. I like the way it looks, but it isn't 'pretty' or 'beautiful' per se. It is limited by packaging though - needs to incorporate four seats, a front mid mounted V12 engine, and some luggage space. To a large degree this determines the look, and it is clever and quite voluptuous in an unorthodox-for-a-supercar kind of way, and it is clearly a Ferrari with the same headlight and taillight language as even the mid engined 458. In that sense it is a pretty successful design.

So, compared to a Corolla who wouldn't say the P14 mule looks great? But compared to what direct competitors do is the real question I think. I suppose it is in that context that we can say "beautiful, bland, aggressive, boring or ugly".

Therefore, the P14 needs to look a whole lot better than the spy shots suggest it will IMV.

 

I remember Frank Stephenson said something like : if you like the P1, wait till you see P14, it is even crazier than the P1.

I sure hope it is.

7 Questions with Frank Stephenson, the Designer of the Modern Mini, McLaren P1, Ferrari F430, and More ? News ? Car and Driver

 

You are right. I am a bad designer. On this I humbly agree. And I've said this many times in my 40 year career of being a designer. In fact, I'm the worst!

 

Pretty much most mid engined cars are derivative going back to the daddy Gt40, some do better than others. The exception being the first Ct Stratos and R8 which are origional.

As to the 458 and 488 the 488 is moving the needle backwards. The 458 was the first really beautiful ferrari in a long time and the 488 is a non tastetful abortive attempt at an update, like a Lp400 to 25 anniv.

Maybe the p14 is derivative and doesent move the needle. But its a really great derivative to my eyes, the best of the modern hits in one car with an integrated design, starting with the zonda greenhouse and giving the car a non goofy face. Ill bet that greenhouse has great visibility.

As to the tub, so what if its the same one its a good tub. The bigger question is whats happened to the subframes and suspension.
Also from what I read elsewhere the motor is based off the same existing unit, seems to work well in the P1, but imo lacks the charisma of a ferrari or porche unit and has too much lag. The two maclarens I drove had more of a blare than atuneful sound, and the motor was not a paragon of smoothness.Still thats the existing unit as we know it, Mclaren has time to really hone it.
Porche did great devloping iterations of the metzger unit, so I hold out hope for Mclaren.

looks great to me, more appealing than a 488, and the whole ferrari brand image thing is so declasse and overwrought these days. Today imo the one "authentic" sports car brand is lotus, porche understands how to make some special cars, ferrari is mostly a lost cause for those who use their cars which these days means track. I hear the Hurracan drives the best of its ilk, So Mclaren may come up with something excellent, a junior zonda, which would be then Mclarens own space stylisticaly and performance wise, and not trying to be an english ferrari or a limo sportscar.

Or they could overanalise as with the mp12 and blow it, for a fun car.

In the end depnds how the p14 drives. Imo the 570 is the first really rewardign one to drive, and apprently so is the 675. I think Mackaren erred in techinical proficiency and everyday usage, instead of understandign that exotics need to be exotic, an occasion to drive and somewhat raw, maybe the p14 will be a big step up.

Read an ineterview with a porche exec. he said they reckognise that a sportscar is self drive and must be fun tod rive, porche sees a core who use their cras by going tot he track and that has to be served to give the rest of the (911) range credibility. Thats why porche will still build some NA cars and even sticks for those who care. I am guessing the GT3 and Gt4 cars sell in total number Mclkaren would love and are probablye extremly profitable for porche.

maybe Mclaren wont ever go NA or stick, but an awesome car thats "fun" to drive at most speeds and can hold up on track is where they need to go.

 

Keep posting. To all those who are offended by contrary opinions and need safe spaces please use the "ignore" function. It's a chat room, not your private forum. If we all had the same opinion this site, or any chat room, would whither and die quickly.