I received this notification today from the MD DMV: "Dear Historic Vehicle Owner, As the owner of a historic vehicle, we want to make you aware of legislation passed by the Maryland General Assembly that goes into effect on Saturday, October 1, 2016. It is important to know that this legislation will impact how historic vehicles may be operated. Effective October 1, 2016, a Maryland registered historic vehicle may no longer be used for transportation to and from employment, school, or for commercial purposes. In addition, historic vehicles with a model year of 1986 or newer may be subject to safety equipment repair orders issued at roadside by law enforcement. Thank you for your compliance with this new Maryland law." Interestingly, I didn't know that historic cars were EVER legal for transportation to and from employment, school, or for commercial purposes. So in that sense, the new law has no actual affect on how I use the 328. But it is interesting that they are increasing the limitations on their use, and also the requirement now that '86 or newer may be subject to repair orders issued by law enforcement. Not sure what, exactly that would entail unless they look for "original emissions equipment" to be in place. Otherwise, I would assume it would have to meet the same criteria as any car - properly working head/tail lights, blinkers, horn, wipers, etc.
We always new you where historic Tommy. I got my notice too and I don't think it has anything new except the 86 safety stuff.
I suspect MD is tightening their standards to more closely agree with the surrounding states (e.g. Virginia). (Virginia has (or had) "no commute" standards for their historic tags. Which is why I didn't get "historic" tags for my '79 Alfa, even though it was 25 when I moved to VA the last time.) When I lived in the DC area, a significant number of cars parked at houses in VA were registered in MD. (I'm told they used PO boxes, etc., for addresses.) Mostly, that was to avoid the large "personal property tax" charged in Northern VA counties. I'd speculate what happened is that VA counties complained to MD, and MD decided to tighten their "historic" standards as a "for show" response, without costing themselves the registration fees on all those VA housed vehicles. The battle of the tax men.
I have Antique plates on my 308. They expire in 2099. I will drive my car however I want and I don't think that a state has any right to influence or change that. PDG
I hope somebody challenges this law. What are the criteria for "historic vehicle" in md? Are there any advantages to the owner for getting the designation? What is the rationale for it, other than just another chip away on personal freedom?
Looks like it's the same as Texas: historical vehicles do not have to be inspected annually, including no emission testing. Here the cut-off is 25 years, so we are seeing historical plates on 1992 and older cars.
Well, you'd be wrong about that. If there's a law that you run afoul of, you are subject to whatever penalty the state has determined is appropriate, regardless of whether you agree with it. Hey, I totally disagree with any speed limits out on "open" roads but reality intrudes and my license was suspended over that issue when I was younger and the state of TX demonstrated that point. The advantage of the historical designation in MD is that no emissions/other periodic inspection is required.
Ok, I get the point. No, would never drive drunk and I do obey speed laws, but for a state to limit the use of my vehicle as described in the first post seems out of line. When I lived in Europe they had very stringent laws on cars that were over 4 years old. As a result, you would rarely see any vehicle on the road that was much past that although there were some that would pass the inspections. The cars essentially became worthless because of the maintenance. In my mind this was a way to artificially subsidize the car manufacturers with little/no cost to the government. Here in the US we aren't as stringent and the free market takes hold to determine. This is a step toward the European way of doing business and I have zero interest in that. PDG
If you don't like how MD is handling this, you guys should have a look at the thread in the Mid Atlantic sub-forum about how VA is going after out-of-state tags (in particular, MT) on vehicles found to be in VA (even though legally registered elsewhere). Also, VA requires you to get a VA license if you spend more than (I think) 60-days in VA. Even if you remain a lawful resident of another state. Someone even made the point that IF someone (like a state, perhaps) could figure out how to register the TPMS sensors (which are connected to a wireless in-car LAN), they could figure out lots of information about that vehicle's whereabouts, speed and so forth. Government is really getting demanding and intrusive. CW
Some constitutional lawyers need to figure out a way to beat that using the "states shall not erect any barriers to inter-state commerce" clause in the US constitution. California tried $**** like that some years ago by charging a smog fee of $500 to all vehicles moving into the state and got slapped down hard by the US Supreme Court.
Strange. I have lived in 4 European countries and each have plenty of older cars on the road. I have visited another half dozen very frequently in my life for leisure and work and all have large numbers of cars way way over 4 years old.. I don't know of any European country that has what you describe. If there's a particular location where there very few older cars to be seen, it's probably because people can afford to enjoy new ones; not because inspections ban old ones. From what I understand, it's the US that has amongst the strictest regulations. California particularly. Eg, iirc Cats arrives in the US a long time before they landed in Europe (Switzerland was first).
You want to feel less old? I have a car I bought new that became qualified as an "antique" vehicle in 2004. Don't want restrictions on when you can drive your old car? Put regular tags on it. In Virginia, the counties that require smog checks exempt cars over 25 years of age (and a few specific hybrids), whether the car is registered "historic" or not. In Tennessee, the counties that require smog checks exempt cars before 1975. By contrast, a vehicle over 25 years old (and unmodified) can be designated "historic". So even "historic" cars from 1975 to 1991 still require a smog check before registration or renewal. So that's where a longer renewal for "historic" may be of use. Historic vehicles in VA can't be used for general transportation. Historic vehicles in TN can only be used for general transportation on weekends (update about 10 years back). As I'm not in an urban county in TN, I just put a regular registration on all my cars, and I can drive 'em whenever I want. No smog check on any of them.
And that's why I love living in Florida. The I-don't-give-a-!@@#-state. No smog or safety checks for anyone. I have antique plates because I like the look of them--they are white-on-blue like the FL plates of old. No restrictions. Now, they city I live in DID recently pass an ordnance prohibiting residents from backing into their own driveways to park--apparently so that its is easier for cops to drive by and see if your tabs are expired (rear plate only here, of course)--but I am not aware that this has actually been enforced anywhere but the most decrepit urban core neighborhoods as part of a "broken windows" harass-the-poor campaign.
This must be in reference to if one has a "historic plate" on the car...? Here in MN we have collectors plates which by law are for show and parade purposes only. The trade off (advantage) for such a plate is you pay no sales tax on the purchase and one time fee for plate/registration. I recently saw a "collector plate" on a 1980's toyota pick up truck! IMO if you plate and register your car as a collector/historic and then use the car as basically a DD or multiple times per week you are in fact doing nothing but trying to cheat the system. Man up, pay the sales tax, yearly registration and enjoy the car in any manner you wish.
The state is not saying you can't own, drive or enjoy as many collector cars as you want. It's saying that if you plate it as a historic/collector you are bound by the stipulations of those plates (usage) and any possible advantages you might get by having those plates..ie no emission testing, no sales tax on purchase, one time registration..etc Plate the car with a regular plates and you have no issues/restrictions on usage legally. Plating it as collector and then driving it how/when ever you want is nothing more than buying a standing room only ticket and then squatting in someone's unused 50 yard line seats until they kick you out.
Good day, I cannot comment on the original poster's assertions, however, recent articles would seem that there is indeed a European motivation against fossil fuel cars: Paris to ban all old cars from city limits starting next year https://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2015/02/12/paris-to-ban-all-old-cars-from-city-limits-starting-next-year/ Several European Countries to Follow Norways Lead, Ban Fuel-Powered Cars https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2016/04/01/several-european-countries-to-follow-norways-lead-ban-fuel-powered-cars/ Cheers, Sam
Regarding Norway. Typical newspaper BS. Noone talked about a ban. They said, they want to promote EVs and hope that the fuel powered engines therefore disappear. There are further BS ideas from jerks in the EU government. But the most important question is, how long will this EU government survive. I hope, the UK will perform well with their Brexit. If it works, others will follow. Best Regards from Germany Martin
Truth is that this push is worldwide across developed nations, US included. Technology is progressing and there's no stopping it. The challenge is to get exceptions in place for historic vehicles. I don't mind driving an electric car around the city in 2030, so long as I can still enjoy my ageing 308. Historic status in the UK is at 40 years, so my '78 308 is just a couple of years away from that. There are no emissions related rules in this; the main benefit is you get to save on road tax which is ~$300 annually. Another benefit specific to my black car is that you are allowed to use black plates with silver letters (as opposed to the normal UK black on yellow). I'm sure the black plates are going to look great on a black 308. Back to the o/p on the MD change; restrictions on use are driven by insurance in the UK. If you want to use your 308 for commuting or business then you have to declare that on insurance and it'd cost a bit more. I've no idea how much as I've always paid for leisure use only.
The current rules from the MD MVA site: "A vehicle registered as historic cannot be used for general daily transportation, or primarily for the transportation of passengers or property on highways. It can only be used in exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, occasional transportation and similar uses." So, they have gotten rid of the "occasional transportation" "loophole". I don't see this as aimed at the typical classic car owner. This is aimed at the poor sap who realizes that instead of paying $150 every two years to register his rusted out 1990 Chevy, he can get $60 historic tags. Of course, in MD, that $60 is still payed every two years. [SIDE RANT ON]In fact, I pay more for my historic and street rod tags since I have personalized plates for those cars. Explain to me why I have to pay an extra $100 every two years for personalized plates when all I get is a little year decal and the plates were made 4 years ago. [/SIDE RANT OFF] Back to the topic at hand. They are trying to tighten the rules but not sure how you enforce this. When the brake line rusted out on my truck (daily driver) and it was in the shop for two weeks, I had to swap between my "historic" and my "street rod" (vehicle has been substantially altered from the original condition and is at least 25 years of age). That fell under the original rules but seems to be illegal under the new rules. And, I pay extra on my classic car insurance to be allowed "occasional use" which the insurance company defines as driving to work no more than twice a week. The problem is laws made by idiots who think that because their job description is "lawmaker" that they have to pass something, even if it is useless in nature.
I am fairly certain this is the way our law reads here in Alabama. I actually know of one person who got a ticket in his Vintage tagged Alfa Romeo many years ago while driving it to a car club meeting (then the Birmingham British Motoring Club - that was friendly to other marques). Apparently the cop didn't believe him. As of now he has been the only one I know that has been cited around here.
