car design thread | Page 161 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. Visioneer

    Visioneer Karting

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    #4001 Visioneer, Sep 16, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
    From my understanding, Cantarella was dictatorial in his management style and a man of questionable taste. Believe me, you don't want to see his wife.

    It's a well known fact that one of Bangle's talents lies in his ability to sell ice to an Eskimo.

    Fact check: Giolito was the Multipla's Chief Designer, not Robinson.

    The Italians ruled post war automotive design? Try running that by GM, Jaguar or Citroen. And if you contact Count Albrecht von Goertz, he might also have a startling opinion, although he's not an easy guy to reach these days.

    All in good fun! : )


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  2. Jeff Kennedy

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    I want to pick up on Justin's comments on BMW design from the pre-Bangle era.

    Whether one agrees on not with the results of Bangle's work it should be recognized that an serious evolution had to occur. This is not just an issue about world markets but the need to advance if one is to be something other than a niche player.

    I have two examples that show what happens when there is insufficient advancement.

    #1 is Morgan. Admittedly they are very much a niche but they became retro without reaching back.

    #2 would be pre-WWII Packard. Compare where Packard's designs were in the late 1930s versus Cadillac. Packard was so tied into their design language that they only made very incremental evolution. Cadillac though was doing far more to find new language to lead the way. This set them up for the post WWII boom and complete market dominance.

    BMW management correctly identified that a new direction was necessary. Bangle at least could articulate the storyline of why change has to happen.
     
  3. Visioneer

    Visioneer Karting

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    Wanna buy some Bangle Ice too? ; ) A serious evolution HAD to occur??? Why? BMW sales weren't ever dropping before Bangle started. Did he get you with his 3 sausages in different lengths story? Did you ever hear of any complaints about BMW's designs pre-Bangle? Where is Bangle now?


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  4. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    He has his own design consulting firm in Italy, that is doing quite well......in case anyone was wondering :)
     
  5. Jeff Kennedy

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    Please, I am not a particular fan of Bangle. He seems to believe too much in the PR machine that has been created around him. But BMW was at a point where they were they needed to find a new path. The tried and true of BMW aesthetics was nearing the end of its road. The automotive world was evolving.
     
  6. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
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    Sort of where Audi is now. What's next already!
     
  7. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    yes



    and yes :)
     
  8. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #4008 jm2, Sep 16, 2016
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  9. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    For the love of God , please dont bring the toxicity you have brought to other threads into this one.

    This is the best thread on FChat. So civil and respectful and, non-argumentative.
     
  10. Protouring442

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    #4010 Protouring442, Sep 16, 2016
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  11. Jeff Kennedy

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    An absolute winner! First as the 4-rotor. A design that brought together folded paper and curves. The Car Styling issue with the design development was fabulous. Jerry Palmer for the exterior and Jim Orr for the interior. A design that is best appreciated in assorted 3/4 vantage points. Take note of the V windshield.
     
  12. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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  13. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    :D
    My skin is as thick as armor, and I probably have a flat spot on my forehead from all the verbal abuse over the years...........but I wouldn't have traded any of it for anything else
    One thing I constantly tell my students, is you can't take criticism personally....its just business.
    We artists tend to wear our feelings on our sleeves
    I'm sure Jerry, it's the same in the film biz & in your very cool creative world
    Creative people deal with this all the time, which is part & parcel with the territory
    If you have a difficult time with criticism, you probably shouldn't become a car designer.
    After doing what I've done for over 40 yrs, with the best in the business beating us over the head..:eek: ...this is child's play ;)
     
  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    This and several others are the cars that MADE me want to be a part of GM Design.
    Mission accomplished;)

    This car is much smaller than most people realize.
     
  15. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Even today, this car is so cool
    B. Mitchell at his best!
     
  16. Jeff Kennedy

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    I know Chuck Jordan ascribed to himself a lot of credit too.
     
  17. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    He may have, but Mr. Mitchell made it clear to everyone and anyone that there was only 1 designer that 'did' the Corvettes around here...........and it was him.
    Everyone else, Chuck, Haga, Palmer, etc. we're just there to 'serve' Mitchell's needs.
    In essence 'his arms & legs'.
    Mitchell once told one of my colleagues no one should kid themselves, Mitchell designed the Corvettes.
    End of conversation.
    No ***** footing around with 'Wild Bill'



    Always remember the line: 'success has many fathers.........failure is an orphan'
    Always amazed when I see the list of people willing to stand up and take credit for a successful design, but try to find the designers that worked on the not so popular cars
     
  18. Autoart

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    #4018 Autoart, Sep 17, 2016
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    I collect one-off hand built cars and one of my favourites is the Erickson GT

    I have attached a couple of photos of the Erickson GT designed & built btw 1961-1964 by Kerne Erickson.

    The overall design execution with cockpit canopy is similar to the Testudo

    The 1969 Opel CD also shares an uncanny resemblance to the Erickson GT

    In 1962 at age 16, Kerne was awarded a $5000 GM design scholarship and graduated in automotive industrial design.

    Recently Kerne emailed me his original sketches of the Erickson GT along with photos of the build

    He currently lives in California, and specialises in fine art. He is also credited as an inventor and holds many patents for his designs.

    Kerne conceived the design in or about 1961 and completed the car in 1964.

    The Erickson GT is based on a fabricated square tube chassis with Chevy Corvette front suspension and powered by a SB Chevy V8.

    Kerne told me that when he completed the car he drove to the opening of a new shopping centre ( supermarket) in the mid-west to debut his creation.

    On arrival he was immediately swarmed by an enthusiastic crowd of shoppers eager to get a closer look at his space machine for the road.

    He said he couldn't believe his eyes! The car was a sensation!!! I'm not surprised.

    During our conversation Kerne confessed the main reason for constructing the car was to attract the opposite sex.

    (My emphasis) Kerne needn't have gone to all the trouble of building the car because he is a man of many talents, not least his good looks, which would undoubtedly aid in luring the opposite sex into the "cockpit" of his space craft for the highway.

    Kerne said he learned many trades during the construction phase. His father taught him to use a welder. The intricate bumpers on the car were hand built by Kerne in mild steel from scratch!

    Kerne, recalls the Erickson GT was featured in an automotive related trade magazine– published by one of the Automotive Paint manufacturers -around the time the car was completed . ( I would love to find a copy).

    The car like many other fibreglass creations built during the 1950 – 60s across the USA and around the world is representative of the determination and ingenuity of a talented young artist.

    Kerne conceived his design around 1961 prior to the debut of Bertone's Testudo in 1963 - which makes the Erickson GT even more remarkable in my book.

    To my eyes the Erickson GT is even more striking than the Testudo with its penetrative razor edge lines which create the illusion of high speed propulsion - whilst standing still !!!!!!

    I hope you enjoy the pictures.

    Michael Nicholas
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  19. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Wow, now that's very cool!
    Congratulations on your continued ownership & thanks for showing a car I never knew existed
    Did he build more than 1?
    Was unaware of this particular design.
    You're right, looks like he was influenced by the Testudo.
    Based on when this was done, he must have known many of my personal friends from that GM Design era.
    Small world :)

    What's interesting is this predates all the folded paper look that the Italian's were to eventually gravitate to
    I'm guessing that the 'form language' was dictated by the ability to build it himself rather than a design philosophy, but I'm only speculating
     
  20. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Gorgeous


    You are right. And I dont mind myself being disrespected but when its people i care about being disrespected really gets under my skin.
     
  21. Autoart

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    John

    The Erickson GT remains a one off.

    The design was ahead of its time and I agree it predates the Italian designs - in particular Gandini's - Marzal show car and later the Maserati Khamsin.

    It also predates the 1969 OPEL CD and Holden concept car the TORANA GTR -X which was designed by an American designer whilst posted in Australia
     
  22. Jeff Kennedy

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    #4022 Jeff Kennedy, Sep 17, 2016
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  23. Jeff Kennedy

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    #4023 Jeff Kennedy, Sep 17, 2016
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  24. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Just got this notification that a an XK-E jaguar has been added to the permanent collection at the MOMA (Museum of Modern Art) in NYC
    They only have 3 cars as their permanent collection.
    As an aside, when Enzo first saw the XK-E, he said it was the 'most beautiful car, ever!'


    TheMuseumofModernArt _ T ,t D,
    For Immediate Release
    NEWLY ACQUIRED JAGUAR E-TYPE ROADSTER FEATURED IN EXHIBITION AT THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART
    March 18, 1996...Glenn D. Lowry, Director, The Museum of Modern Art, today announced the acquisition of a Jaguar E-type Roadster, only the third automobile to enter the collection. Given to the Museum by Jaguar Cars, the 1963 opalescent dark blue car is the focus of an exhibition opening at the Museum on April 4. REFINING THE SPORTS CAR: JAGUAR'S E-TYPE explores the history and the unusual design method of what is widely regarded as the paradigm of the modern sports car. Organized by Christopher Mount, Assistant Curator, Department of Architecture and Design, the exhibition continues through August 20, 1996.
    The exhibition features the new acquisition and includes an additional E-type engine, photo panels of the C- and D-type series which preceded the E-type, and original engineering drawings. Many of the objects have been lent to the Museum by the families of the car's original designers and engineers, and from the archives of Jaguar Cars.
    Although the car was introduced more than thirty years ago and production ceased in 1974, the sleek, bullet-like shape of the Jaguar E-type continues to be one of the most influential and imitated styling forms in sports car design. Better known in the United States as the XK-E, the car is noted for its beauty, its profile, its speed, and, at the time it was introduced, its affordability. It was conceived by Jaguar to be the synthesis of a competition racer and an everyday-use car. While it included luxury appointments it was priced for a large consumer market.
    -more-
    11 West 53 Street, New York, N.Y. 10019-5498 Tel: 212-708-9400 Fax: 212-708-9889
    M
    2
    "Since 1972, when the Museum acquired its first car, a Cisitalia '202' GT, we have been committed to expanding this facet of the design collection," commented Terence
    Riley, Chief Curator, Department of Architecture and Design. "We developed a wish-list of ten to twelve cars, with the E-type at the top. When we approached Jaguar to acquire one for the collection, the company was very enthusiastic. From a private collector they
    secured a car that we considered to be in pristine condition and they donated it to the Museum. Because of the E-type's beauty and sculptural quality, its functionality, and its seminal impact on overall car design, it perfectly suits the criteria of a landmark design object."
    "Rarely has a car inspired the kind of passion in both car enthusiasts and the general public that the Jaguar E-type has. Even today, the E-type is considered an icon of the postwar British sports car," said Mr. Mount. "The exhibition showcases a prototype of good car design while illustrating the processes and decisions that went into creating it."
    First introduced at the 1961 Geneva Auto Show, the Jaguar E-type was designed by Malcolm Sayer, a car stylist at Jaguar Cars Ltd. who was trained as an aerodynamicist. Mr. Sayer modeled the E-type after the C- and D-type racers also designed by him and used predominantly for competition at Le Mans, one of the most prestigious racing events in the world. The engine for both of these cars was a modified version of the one installed in the XK series, later adapted for use in the E-type. It is from the XK series that the E-type obtained its American designation of XK-E.
    The E-type is one of the first large-production cars to evolve out of aerodynamic concepts, which until that point had been used only on sophisticated racing cars and airplanes. In designing the E-type, Mr. Sayer approached the exterior shape first, seeing the
    -more-
    u
    3
    silhouette as paramount to the car's performance. Mr. Sayer used secret mathematical
    formulas to calculate the ellipses that defined the classic outline as well as the bumpers, lights, wheels, and other exterior elements.
    Scale models of Mr. Sayer's car were tested in a wind tunnel to assess its response to air resistance from various angles. Attention to this detail produced fluid, uninterrupted lines that tapered from every angle, a contrast to the large, finned American sedans of the period that only allowed for aerodynamic motion from front to back.
    The mechanics of the E-type were also based on the C- and D-type race cars, including such elements as its independent front and rear suspension, rack-and-pinion steering, disc brakes, and an advanced semi-monocoque construction. This construction, borrowed from the airplane industry, made the car lighter and faster. The 3.8-liter, six- cylinder engine allowed for performance that was comparable to a racing car, including the ability to reach a speed of 150 miles per hour and accelerate from 0 to 100 miles per hour in 19 seconds.
    The exhibition is made possible by Jaguar Cars.
     
  25. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    one of the very 1st things I made it a point to do after I got hired at GM design was to find the 4 Rotor and sit in it............mission accomplished ;) , but alas no cell phones back then and no photos :(
    It's much 'tighter' than you might think.
     

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