Looks are subjective indeed. Leather quality and plastics are not. I don't commit to women, cars, or guitars that have not had a good test drive because it's too expensive to be wrong. If you are arguing for a $400,000 car you have not driven, and are already committed to buy, that's to me the definition of idiotic and biased. No offense intended, yet you clearly have money to blow that I don't. Admittedly I had a bad intuitive feeling about the car, and set that aside to get excited and go in with an open mind to get to know it! What fun to drive the latest Ferrari. Yet there was no joy. If you want softer pedals and less feedback (Porsche around town) with a ripping 12 at high revs that is very capable in the corners once you learn the rear wheel feel, this car is for you. No need to get defensive, but your theories are worthless until you drive it.
Brian, ever since I started reading this forum you have been promoting one idea, FF is a great car and that's it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either an idiot or a rich guy who doesn't know what to do with his money and doesn't know how to drive a Ferrari. Please, you need to think why you have this position, it's you , not Ferrari, not Lusso, the problem is whitin you. I'm probably going to get a negative response for saying this, and this is not my position because I'm buying the Lusso, I just don't like how you adopt this "my way or high way" approach and positioning all your feelings and impressions as undeniable facts. my apologies to all readers for wasting your time with this.
I think Brian, you laid out your opinions and observations very well. I think we should leave it there. No need to call other people names. I see two things combining with bad effect. 1- I have noticed we often turn opinion into right and wrong on the forums. I really don't think this should descend into my opinion is RIGHT and your opinion is WRONG. 2- We also personalize the cars. I know what I like and since I have great taste, and I didn't like this car, then it must be a bad car.... Thank goodness the world is far more varied and complicated than this.
In principle, buying a 400,000 car without driving it, in principle it's not intelligent. Not calling anyone names, that is just an action for people who don't get it. You buy a car because of the driving experience. Not the marque. Are we doing mail order brides next? lol Putting many words in my mouth, and I reject that. Very passive aggressive with the "my apologies" comment. Ridiculous analysis and conclusions overall ... my way is not the only way. Having a clear view based in experience is what life is about. You see my review as being "negative" and that's your bias. I have said many times the new car is obviously popular, and my minority opinion is only one! I love many F cars, just not this one! Your post is at root personal, and as such out of bounds ... it should be a PM.
That is your opinion which you are entitled to, but don't bash people and refer to their actions as idiotic because they want to buy a car they haven't had the chance to drive yet. Not everyone has the same thought process and people work in different ways which is what makes the world go round.
good write-up . extremely disappointing re the plastic cavalin - hopefully they are reading this and can "correct" it by the time the first custmer cars roll out. if you use the FF as a DD theb the Lusso is only going to better that. it's clealry been deisgned more towards a DD than the FF. FF seems more like a "muscle" car although we are knocking a 700HP NA beast in itself, the Lusso has been refined and one needs to take the option for leather on seat-back as the standard plastic black is almost a joke it's so hideous. from a technology and performance perspective, it's extremely impressive however i still can't get my head around the pasenger display option when the middle screen is so ginormous already....
When I started reading this I had no idea at the length and depth of the review. Well done it's refreshing to read an in depth POV from an owner rather than a journalist who is on some corporate hospitality event with all bells and whistles layed on and all expenses paid trip to somewhere nice. Interested in the fact you picked up on the more plastic feel to the Lusso, as well as the cheaper materials used compared side by side and back to back driving. I understand the thought for the plastic to the rear of the seats ( albeit Found more in the family bmw run around rather than premium money F car). Do you think this sets the stall out for looking for how much plastic is fitted inside the Lusso or is simply the plastic fittings that are there, are of a poorer standard to those found in the FF. I suppose the argument would be that by shaving 3.865 grams from this piece of plastic helps towards weight saving and therefore fuel efficiency, which I suppose seems to be the pressure of the day at the moment with all manufacturers to use fuel efficient turbos on a small an engine as possible. I do hope that if it is simply poor quality plastic and general feel of the car, that it's not a sign of things to be expected now the board is answerable to share holders trying to push the bottom line as much as they can.
Quite a detailed write up. The plastic cavallino is definitely a big surprise if it is not for safety reason. Does the new rear hatch design make the rear opening bigger and more useful? The new opening reminds me of Dodge Magnum's rear opening design.
What I found so interesting about Brian's post is that I was so taken with my test drive, plus all the marketing and hype that I had ignored most of his observations which are robust and reasonable.
I like the write up and found the side/side pics informative. Seems the whole review can be summarized in just two words: Plastic Horse.
i own an FF from day one and after 26k miles through sun and snow i sing the cars praise but according to brian im a pompous rich ***** because i dont think my FF is pretty or nice to look at - go figure!
If you ignored them it's actually because they aren't a big deal in the first place and you'd have never noticed them anyway. It's like someone pointing out a scratch on your car. If you were thrilled with your experience, all the other details are meaningless.
Sorry to offend anyone with the means to order a car without driving it. I suppose if it was a TDF I would have done that too because it was knowable, but this one seemed to have a new direction and design issues from day one for me. If you were taken by the looks and features, it would be easy to write the check. I mean no offense. There are people here up the food chain in cars and income and you have your ways Scraggy, that was my aim. To get past first impressions and excitement on features and selling points to the timeless reality of the product and the driving experience. The exterior has more body crease lines here there and everywhere, and the interior has more features, screens, buttons and switches than anything they have ever done. Side by side, the simplicity and rounded nature of the FF and the "analog feel" of the FF is very clear. They went 180 degrees the other way with a square busy exterior, and a busy interior that sadly lacked luxury. The drive is very different also on purpose. Like I said, it's not the new or upgraded FF, it's a new car in an old frame. They said so themselves up front. 80% was it ? Truly I hope you love it And I do hope they upgrade some of these materials issues on the car I drove. They can paint the plastics. Not sure the can hide the mounting points for the side sills at this point. They can't wrap the seats without some tricky work around the handle, but they could do it. An in-house detail artist needs to look at all the fonts, and make some changes for more integrity. The leather is a matter of spending the money. The door handle mechanism can be upgraded easily. The turn signals could be made to feel better, be more subtle, not such big plastic chunks that require so much work. That was a big turn off. The ability to use them from behind the wheel was solving a non existent problem, some bright idea from a focus group. otakki ... the rear opening is a little more tall in the top/middle and a little more rounded/smaller on the top/sides. Mostly the same thing. The side lines/shapes of the opening are very nearly identical. The rear view is a bit more constrained as the peak of the roof is further forward so by the spoiler and rear window it's lower and that curve hampers a little on the sides. It was a small opening, it's smaller now. Can't take a joke? I'm sorry to hurt your feelings. Truly. And it's "you're", in your application. And no, they don't.
That's not actually true. We have layers to our experience, and we see things differently in time. I'm not pointing out a flaw, I'm looking at quality, integrity, timelessness, drive dynamics vs features and HP. They are selling the cars on alcohol, luxury parties and features. But reality is reality. Parts are parts. Quality is quality. Plastic is plastic. Door feel is door feel etc. And the thought process behind all of it, whatever it may have been, is a real thing too.
I purchased my $400,000 F12 without a test drive. Rich idiot decision? Brian, I really appreciate the effort you put into this comparison (especially the incredibly helpful side-by-side pics), but it's really sad that you don't comprehend the overly condescending and inflexible tone of your posts. Not just this one. Why such a hateful approach? We're all serious, largely lifelong enthusiasts on this board, and a civil tone is not too much to ask. I think the FF, F12, and 488 all benefit from a healthy sprinkling of options to dress up the car. My F12 has the full CF engine treatment, and I'm doing the same on my 488 next year. I have no problem "finishing" (my words) the car with expensive options. In fact, I'm grateful that Ferrari offers so much customization potential via the extensive options list and even Atelier and Tailor Made. Hope that doesn't make me a rich idiot. BTW, I just bought a 2012 FF today. Have loved the car ever since I test drove one for two full days when it was first released. Paid less than half of MSRP. Maybe, there's still hope for my money management skills.
I am civil. To have a clear view and defend it is neither "condescending" or "inflexible". That's a projection. No "hate", that's also a projection. My review of the car was civil and not personal in any way. Some people here lack civility with me in response to that review for their own reasons, and I look forward to you calling them out and not being hypocritical. I said up front this is one person's view only and the car is selling well, reviewed well. You missed that part? I've already apologized for offending anyone who bought without a test drive ... and never said anyone specifically was a "rich idiot". I test drive anything I buy. You are welcome to disagree, and that should go without saying, we are adults here. Enjoy your cars! Even if you buy this one! We are on the same team, we love cars and appreciate Ferrari in particular. My tone is unhampered by kissing any ass. I'm not anyone's judge or jury, and anyone accusing that has an inner dialogue to blame. If my posting style is not for you, please ignore.
Great write up and thank you for taking the time to enlighten us as to your take on the differences. And here I thought Ferrari was one step closer to the massed produced cars for putting cup holders and cruise control(pit speed) in the FF. It is a beautiful car but it does not have that visceral feeling that my three pedal 430 spider had. I would say that if the GTC4 is considered softer then we are starting to lose the real thrill and possible quality of the machine. It's not the horsey on the car that makes me come back for more but the over all experience.
I have never driven that car gated, F1 yes ... or an F40/F50 ... but you are naming one part of the issue in my view: 1. How does Ferrari move forward with features and tech advances and not become boring Porsche with higher priced V12 cars? Can the bathwater be freshened up and the baby remain in tact? HP is huge, tech is advanced. How to retain the DNA in a Lusso? A bigger swing from Comfort to Sport would be one way, in suspension and pedal. I mean a huge move stiffer and faster in Sport from this. This can be done. 2. How does Ferrari justify all the SMALL STEPS of quality that are NEEDED in every new design to add up to unique and high quality car deserving of the badge, given the new corporate reality on net numbers and gross units? This is harder. Every small thing adds up. Each one has a price.
Oy vey, Brian. So, now I'm projecting and have an inner dialogue to blame? Who's projecting here? Your posting style is definitely not for me. I ignored it for several months. Must have suffered a moment of weakness tonight after buying an FF. Ironic, that. Bye bye.
Thanks for the writeup Brian. I appreciate the time and effort it took to write such a detailed and extensive report on the car. A lot of things i never noticed until i saw them in your post/pics. Very curious to see what they will produce in Geneva with the F12M.
