430MT vs. 430 Scuderia

991.2 GT3 PDK or Manual - Page 1 - Porsche General - PistonHeads

I have my name down for one of these bad boys (fingers & toes crossed) to sit along side the Scud. I'll be specc'ing manual to compliment the Italian paddles...

 

I'm supposedly near the top I've my dealer's list. Ideally, I'll go Paint to Sample and MT.

I agree having driven the GT3 with PDKS. That transmission is so ridiculously good from a performance standpoint that it makes an NA flat 6 pull almost like a 12. I'm sure an MT even with a great shifter would add 4/10ths to GT3s 3 second 0-60 time.

In the end though, I do not make a living being faster around a track then the other guy so with that in mind, I find the MT more engaging.

 

Well said! I like your logic. There will be many more ultra fast cars with paddles to choose from, but very few opportunities for a manual transmission in a car as good as the GT3.

 

Agree completely.

I would love to see them make another manual GT3. It's clearly possible with the current platform (911R).

Have them make both and keep those in each camp happy. Everybody wins.

Without the 911R around, I would say that fitting a manual to the GT3 might be too expensive on the development side, but since that's not the case, they should offer it.

(just my assumption re:development costs)^

 

Good assumption. And I think that's what Porsche had in mind with the 911R. They ran a risk of alienating some of their biggest 911 enthusiasts with a car only 918 VIPs could get. Using the manual in 911R for an MT option in the 991.2 GT3 makes perfect sense and should set everything right with those who've wanted a 911R and couldn't get one.

One thing though, I can never quite understand the business case behind these highly limited edition series where demand greatly exceeds supply. I mean I can see the point of a limited edition series but why not scale it close to actual demand over a set allocation period. Once the allocation period is over no more cars. The special cars will still hold their value or possibly appreciate over time. And the flipping or jacking up the MSRP which is usually frowned upon by the factory would be greatly curtailed.

Don't get me wrong I'm very aware Porsche and Ferrari are doing exceedingly well business wise. I don't think you can even by a new Ferrari as they sell em as fast as they make em but tripling the number Special As or 911Rs Where's the downside.

Anyway just my 2 cents. Truth is I would feel more than blessed with a gt3 and a 458 Spider or 430 Spider especially if the former had a sweet 6 speed.

Thanks man. I really think some of the super cars today are getting close to limitations of physics. While getting to 60 in under 3 seconds is truly an intoxicating feeling sometimes it almost too intense. I prefer savoring the effort, winding out an engine that really gives up the torque on the far side of the rev range.

That's why I really think the 360s and 430s are a sweet spot in the super car evolution. They still have that Analogness. And while the F1 doesn't give you a clutch pedal, from what I recall the overall feel of shifting gear with an F1 resembled an MT far more than PDK. Even if the process itself is different.

 

I have owned both the 430MT coupe AND the 16M. I sold the 430MT for a $30,000 profit AFTER putting 6,000 miles on it in 18 months. Wonderful car. Will remember her fondly.

My 16M would have WAY more profit in her if I sold it for market price. She made it OK for me to sell the 430MT. The 16M made my 430MT feel like my grandma's oldsmabuick by comparison! The first time I drove her (the 16M) I was like, "Now THIS is what a Ferrari is supposed to be!" Incredible car. Will never be another one like it!

The 430MT coupe was my lovely wife. Beautiful. Kind and gentle. Reliable, even. But enough juice to remind you what she is made of when pushed.

The 16M is that porn-star hottie (with the skin tight mini dress, big implants and too much makeup) that will rock your world! Then leave you broke and stranded on the side of the road wondering how got suckered into all this! But you will still go back to her. You'll empty your bank account just to be with her one more time!

But I already have a lovely wife back at the house. She doesn't even like cars. So when I'm not with her I want be with my porn-star mistress. Life is too short to settle for 'good enough'!

 

This is the best description of the 16M I've ever heard!!!!

 

I agree with a lot of this. Very well said.

 

I think you have to separate the value from the experience discussion.

The value discussion is mainly based on the production figures and the fact: last of a breed.

If the given numbers from a German Ferrari dealer are true (230 manual Coupe´s), than it would be a very good and better investment than a Scud.

But of course, the driving thrill in a Scud is higher.

But this is the same with a BMW E30 M3 Sport Evolution and a Lamborghini Diablo:

The BMW with the 4-cylinder engine has more racing history and only 600 produced, but the V12 Lambo delivers much more thrill.

Fact is, nevertheless the value of the BMW is higher...

 

I wouldn't call an F430 ordinary at all... And I really will understand if someone, that wants to have a full control over his car, to prefer a manual F430 over a Scud.

I now have a Scud and the only thing, that I really miss my 355 for, is the way I could play with it. I could play with it absolutely like a toy - doing burnouts or making 180 turns with a great controlled drift

You just can't do such things with an F1 transmission.

 

230 manual coupes in Germany sounds very high! I would expect a similar quantity to the number in the Uk so around 130.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Thank you!

Not to take anything away from the 430MT. It was the first Ferrari I had ever driven. One lap around the block during the test drive and I was smitten. I felt like "Oh, now I get it!" This is why those Ferrari guys (Tifosi) are so obsessed. This car is amazing! Incredible feel at the controls. Plenty of low end torque. A ride like a Cadillac. Handling as sharp as a race car without the harsh ride. Quiet when short-shifted. Screamed when redlined. This car has two distinct personalities. Just as happy to commute in traffic as she is doing a track day.

The 16M is so different from the 430MT that you can hardly believe they are manufactured by the same company, much less made from the same platform! The 16M has one personality. She wants to go fast. ALL the time. EVERYwhere. The little switch on the steering wheel doesn't even HAVE a bad weather mode. It's base mode is 'sport'. Then 'race'. It only gets MORE serious from there!

The financial conversation is very separate from the functional conversation I have written. When it comes to driving them, they are for very different types of driving. The 16M is very special, indeed. I don't know how much longer I will hold onto her given the present market valuations (even with the recent decline since Pebble Beach). I haven't advertised her for sale because I know I will fold like a wet napkin with check in front of me! But until then, I'm gonna enjoy her. She's a car that will haunt me long after she's gone. Sigh!

 

Those numbers are relating to the whole production figures worldwide.

Including F430 Spider there should be around 550 MT F430 worldwide .

 

Those figures are nonsense - there are 257 MT F430 in the UK alone. UK takes 10% of Ferrari production. German % of Ferrari production is similar to UK.
The Ferrari register (which is constantly updated and represents approx. 60-80% of F cars) has 837 MT F430 currently listed and 9941 F1 F430. Total F430 production is thought to be 16000-18000.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

To be honest I doubt this figures. Most of the "manual" cars offered are in reality F1 cars.

Even now after the price increase not more than 5% of the listed F430 are manual cars.

Much less F430 MT are offered than Scuderias and also less than e.g. GT3 RS 4.0 (600 produced).

And I think UK is not representive, here should be more manual Ferrari than anywere else.

I can only rely on the figures confirmed by the dealer in Germany.

I try to find it out, but besides the information of my dealer all indicators I have checked show me that there should not be more than 500-1000 cars (Coupé and Spider).

 

I wouldn't recommend burnouts with the single-clutch transmission, but you absolutely can do controlled drifts when making sharp turns. I do it all the time. Just put the car in CT-off (or CST-off) and be ready to react quickly. Easiest is the drift out of a u-turn. Slow speed so it's easy to stay out of trouble.

 

Yes, but it's not the same. You can't revv the engine before releasing the clutch obviously... And with the F1 when you hit the gas pedal, the computer needs some time to see what exactly are you trying to do and that spoils everything. You just can't play with the car the way you can with a manual transmission.

 

It's true that the UK is not representative. It took 69 of the 246 manual 575s worldwide, and 1 of the 2 manual Californias. Its proportion of manuals during the time there were both on offer was considerably higher than the global average.

 

Own an F430 manual and have driven a Scud on track. Although the Scud is a wonderful and raw car you lose so much of the driving experience and engagement with the car when you settle for an automatic transmission.

So, easy decision: Manual F430, especially with the wonderful metallic tactile and aural feedback you get from the gated shifter.