GTC4 Drive, Inspection and Review

Wow!!! Your posts are very often condescending and I thought you knew that. You really don't do you?

Personally I don't mind. It livens up the forum. You do speak as though your subjective opinion is actually fact when it isn't though. And some of what you present as actual fact I'm not too sure about either. For example, every Lusso I've seen does not have plastic seats, including the one in the Atelier at the factory. They are not interior coloured but contrast coloured and are standard fit. (See pic). I thought your point was not about the seat back but the part where the seat movements controls are. This part is of very similar design and build to the FF, in fact it may be the same. Maybe its different in the US?

As for the leather, I too know about interiors, especially automotive ones. I have a highly trained butt...it's very sophisticated and sensitive my butt, so don't offend it. And it knows comfy leather when it sits on it.

I didn't order the upgraded leather as in my FF because I liked the standard leather, in fact preferred it.

As for rich idiots. Don't see too many of those in life. As you most likely well know, it's hard to get to a priviliged position where you can afford these toys. It is very easy to trust Ferrari, get yourself in the order process, without a drive. Everyone will get the chance to drive before they complete their purchase. No idiots needed.

Where I live no demos have arrived yet. So when I drive one, what do you think? Am I likely to cancel? I don't think so. This car will be right, and solve some of the issues the FF has. Working from the press reviews, they confirm exactly what I believe needed to happen to the FF to make it a better car. Or do your think that in the four years they have been developing this car they decided to unlearn what they know and make it worse? Ahh, yes, you don't you. You think it's all about the recent corporate thing. And now I'm being condescending. I already don't like it so I'll stop.
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On a positive note, it seems the discussion and reviews confirm what many here are saying about F12M positioned as even more sporty and pure sports car, less GT. This openes the door for Lusso to be more soft, easier to drive, yet still offering the extreme performance when needed, but in a deferent delivery style, allowing Ferrari to cover more market segments with the same lineup.

This makes sense to me, especially that it allows them to grab a bigger share in the high end GT market ( RR Wraith, Bentley GT speed, AM Vanquish, Mercedes S65 coupe) all cars that buyers in the target profile will consider, most more comfortable than FF but non can offer anything close to Ferrari explosive performance and excitement. the down side to Ferrari in this segment was that the FF is too focused and sharp in comparison to the cars mentioned above. I also think Ferrari knows well that many buyers in this segment will have three or even more cars in the garage including a pure sports car like 488 or F12 or even a Lamborghini perhaps. So offering them a 2+2 softer GT with more versatility and user comfort is a logical move.

 

Brian - can we have your thoughts in the IPhone 7 or Trump now this is very good ��

 

I see what you're saying and there seems to be merit in it IMO, however, I really don't think the FF is a 'sharp tool'. Its appeal lies in the fact that it is a GT car, done the Ferrari way. I mean by this that the excitement you can gain from driving it is ahead of other recognised GT cars like Bentley and Aston. The V12 sings, the DCT tuned as it is enhances the feeling of control and sportiness and the front engined layout gives that old school Ferrari feeling.

It can't hide its mass though.

Other brands don't really bother to hide the mass, Bentley being a good example. Ferrari's style is to try and use technology to give the best of both worlds, and it does a great job. Add to this the four seat configuration and the smart four wheel drive and you do really have a unique car that mixes those Ferrari genes with usability. It's a great Ferrari.

But it's not too focused or sharp. In fact, the tech barely manages to reconcile the need for the car to feel like a Ferrari, yet at the same time work as a big, four seat, front engined GT luxury car. Its one reason why I believe the newer car, with newer tech, will ultimately be more successful, even though when the FF was launched, the car did not exist which could reconcile as many compromises. Perhaps that's wrong, the 12C did the same from a different angle.

I don't buy the 'Ferrari is going soft' thing that tends to be a theme for those who wish to knock them. The best performance cars provide good roll control allied to soft suspension. If a car's particular trade-off in that regard is set too high you get a recalcitrant car that is only at its best on billiard-smooth surfaces. One of the things McLaren brag about is their re-writing of the rules in terms of this equilibrium. The Tenneco suspension on their cars gives roll control...and....absorbent suspension. Soft suspension increases traction. Traction means you can go faster.

So, technology has been improving and both McLaren and Ferrari are now able to achieve the body control they need for a particular model, at a suspension setting that is more absorbent.

Added to that, the new DCT gearboxes which don't neede to jerk at all, like the old F1 boxes. They only jerk on an aggressive change as a sop to providing a racy sensation to drivers. It serves no decent purpose in terms of adding speed, in fact it is worse because the car gets unsettled at a crucial point.

So, a by product of using tech to make cars faster is also that they are being made somewhat softer and more accessible. It is a generalisation but it means that cars like the Lusso, or the 12C, or the 675, Speciale and F12, being a little softer to use than their predecessors, are not in my opinion dumbing down to accommodate a wider market, which is perhaps the implication.

But, the lines are getting more and more blurred between models. A 675 is just about the most aggressive non-hyper car you can buy, yet it is quite possible to daily drive it if you so wished. Much more so than any car of similar performance from a decade ago.

 

Interesting write up Brian, thanks - i was also deeply underwhelmed by the quality of the Lusso's cabin materials, but put that down to the cars i sat in being pre-production development hacks. Let's see, interesting points of view and helpful.

 

Thank you for a very interesting and informative review/comparison. i have not sat in a Lusso, so cant opine on it.

I am surprised though that so many people feel that the FF should be softer, I already find it a rather soft car as it is. I would prefer it with less luxurious stuff adn less weight (but still 4wd and 4 seats) - maybe that is because it is my only car, so I dont have a weekend car to use when I want a more focused experience. I also daily drove a 355 and a 911 GT2 clubsport, so probably just different expectations of comfort levels in cars and a general preference for more analgoue / less gimcky cars and car interiors.

I cant afford a Lusso anyway, so "luckily" i do not have to decide if I should get the newer car or not

Quite shocked that they really did launch a V8 version now.... Not sure this is a good thing overall.

 

+1. My F12 had much less body roll at speed on the track last week than I expected, and Atlanta Motorsports Park is a tight track where you're turning almost constantly (16 turns in 2.0 miles). My friend, who was following in his 488 GTB, was also surprised by the F12's ability to carry speed through corners. Both up- and downshifts were also seamless with even less jerk than on the street, where the DCT is already excellent. Modern Ferraris strike an excellent balance between softer daily usability and capability in more aggressive situations. I personally don't miss the crashy sports suspensions of yesteryear on anything other than a dedicated track car.

 

Not 'softer' exactly. Less rough-edged when you're driving in a more sedate manner. It's a Ferrari, it should be nothing less than completely engaging when you're fully on it.

 

Def agree with this.

Looking at all the little details, angles, interior the FF really oozes quality and FERRARI, imo back to back !

 

Most people don't/won't care and can't tell you the difference between any of it. If you're a stickler for aluminum badges, so be it. I never even knew they were aluminum to begin with. Is the leather worse? Maybe, but then again, people have given me expensive wine that tastes like crap compared to a cheap bottle.

I personally think leather is an awful material for seats in the first place -- hot the summer, cold in the winter, and I hate sweating against it. Some people will love the idea that their lip or bumpers are CF whereas a CF lip or bumpers is among the most idiotic things you can have since the weight savings is nothing and the cost to repair is extreme.

If someone was thrilled with their test, then they'll be thrilled with their purchase regardless of any lower cost components or materials.

 

It is what it is. Ferrari is going to make and we are going to buy. And for everyone who doesn't want to buy, there is another person lined up to take the spot. I don't see them having a hard time selling cars no matter what they make. I for one don't like the new car too much especially with the addition of a V8 Turbo. I'll hang onto my FF for as long as I can. But if the day comes when I need to replace the FF, and I am looking for a new car, nothing else compares in the market to one with a Prancing Horse on it whether its made of aluminum or plastic

 

And how. Wall Street is now their God.

 

What about Homelink? Seriously. Can I open more garage doors with the Lusso? I'm shocked that you left that out of the review. [Patiently waiting.]

 

I think your extensive comparison and detailed analysis is well done. I don't agree with all your points and interpretations, but that's fine. It is probably the most complete comparison I've seen, better than most auto journalists.

Like many of us, it's also clear you have your biases - in this case to the FF - which is fine (I have that bias as well). Quite candidly, one of the low points of the FF is that is was SO low volume, that there was a lot of improvisation. Take a look at a dozen of the 2012 cars, the interior panels are all a bit different... to me, part of the charm, as the chassis, engine and gearbox are awesome. Our 2015 is also noticeably different than our early (1st in the USA) model in terms of software.

To your point about Ferrari always listing their technical suppliers....this is marketing and the same list do many of the same parts of the FF (and F12, and 599, 430, Cali...). They build to a design (and functional, and cost) spec. The aesthetic design is 100% Ferrari (and Pininfarina where applicable), a lot of the function (eg. "here is how we'll do the power seats") is always a mix. Of course, crap suppliers make for crap cars (poor quality or poor function) but Ferrari defines and accepts it. (eg. somehow they thought the Harman INT system was "good enough").

 

Here is why your apology doesn't go too far, I believe every La Ferrari, every TDF and every 458 speciale A has been committed to sight unseen, I hadn't seen what it was going to look like and I didn't know what it was going to be called when all the allocations were spoken for.

So there is a group of loyal fans that get invited and accept the next car knowing very little about the car. I love my 458 Speciale Aperta, and I think I was thoughtful of the purchase, today it is worth twice what I paid for it. If I was invited to get a a La Ferrari allocation, I would commit over the phone, and I have never driven one. I would be a pretty smart, dumb guy if I had both in the last 4 years, I would be up $4mil.

 

haven't all the latest software updates been applied to the early FFs?

 

Ferrari has almost always, as far as I can remember, listed its "strategic partners". I don't think that is evidence of their losing it.

Heres a picture I dug up on line from the FF reveal...

http://saudishift.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Ferrari-FF-13.jpg

 

They list all the same ones for the LF too.

This is normal. Ferrari does not manufacture and design every single thing on their car. It isn't feasible to do it all yourself when you're making a few thousand cars per year. Hell, it's not even feasible if you're making a few million.

Suppliers fill an important role and the quality of their products ranges from cheap to cutting edge. There is collaboration when necessary, though sometimes it could just be an off-the-shelf part in whatever spec Ferrari wants.

 

Hey bud, can you expand on the interior panels? 15 software to 2012? Low volume as in, exhaust noise? just curious

I find my 12 to be LOUD with valves disconnected, equally as loud as my superleggera with larini exhaust.. Find it so interesting seeing people differences interesting stuff thanks

 

For you to, using your favourite word 'project' that what I am worried about is 'defending' my deposit on a Lusso is lazy comment and inaccurate. But then you won't agree. Take my word for it. Or don't, up to you.

I have never criticised your preference for the FF. Seems entirely fair an opinion. What I criticise is your extreme views about the Lusso. Still up to you, but I can't consider them any more because I feel there is prejudice in them. I may not be right but I've seen enough to personally reach that conclusion. If we did a straw poll, before you posted, about what the conclusions would be from your test drive, ranging from outstanding down through good to average, and then terrible, I dare say everyone who has read your posts over the last few months would have been able to predict where on that spectrum you would be. Surprise surprise, there you were. Not a crime. But predictable. Yeah, why don't we all conclude, corporate Ferrari make terrible cars now.

It's up to you. Say what you like. The point of a forum is to have a discussion, but with you it is a lecture, so I've stopped taking account of your opinions on this issue, even though some of them are probably valid and useful.

As for 'Easter egg hunt of parts', I think I'm probably right in saying every car ever made has neen built that way. Certainly every Ferrari, which, yes, includes the FF. So what's the point of criticising that? It applies to the FF equally. It's all just getting a bit silly now.

As for the fact I haven't driven the Lusso, my point was that from your test drive comments it seems to me that they have taken the right direction for this car not the wrong one. My lack of experience in driving the car is irrelevant to the points I made.

I hope you don't mind, but in future I'm not likely to respond to your posts because you have a tendency to be pretty rude and turn the conversation into a fight. I'm happy to talk and discuss, not the other.