so let me translate...."this is why I'm right" Look pal, I'm on my second FF, love the car, unsure if i'm into the GTC4 design myself....I was among the first to commend you for a great review (again, with balanced critiques based on your opinion). Well done. Unfortunately, like some other threads, seems like you're treating counterpoints to what you think as personal insults. Slanderous baloney?
Drop it, no point, you (we) lose no matter what, some people have chips on their shoulder and that's that.... I too am on my second FF and will keep my current FF once I receive my Lusso - test drive at Courmayeur on 20-21 Oct will be very interesting --- then we can discuss a real performance review and not worry about pure aesthetics and BS that can be sorted with a bit of dosh
If we got chips I'll bring the salsa! I think everyone should just appreciate his analysis and accept/reject whatever they want. That's why we have choices!
Yes, but why is it that you feel the need to keep saying it? Perhaps what's coming across is very different than what you think you are saying? You have also responded repeatedly to anyone who has disagreed with you effectively telling them that they are wrong. Your post was comprehensive, Brian, but honestly I could have written it without ever seeing the car based on all of your previous comments. You have been predisposed to strongly dislike, dare I say "hate", this car from the get go. Seems like you went to see it not to fairly evaluate the car but to justify all your previous posts. It was a pre-production press car. Relax already. You aren't going to buy one, so why continue to comment? And for all your talk about cheap quality, isn't the radio in your FF pulled from a 1986 Chrysler LeBaron? Seems like, based on sales, the FF (which I love FWIW) may have missed some of the target market and the Lusso has a broader range of performance and luxury to satisfy more buyers at both ends of the spectrum. Commercial reviews largely do suck, looking forward to owners reviews after delivery of production models. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
How do you make your money? Because this post suggests you have never had an aesthetics discussion in the real world. When I reply, you are not wrong, it's a debate. What's "coming across" to you or anyone ... is a projection, from each individual, from their bias and experience. I can't be responsible for that, but I will reply when I am misquoted. So ... I reply where there is a personal or conceptual slander or to counter an argument. This thread is my review, and if you don't like the thread, go away. Or ignore my posts. No one is wrong in their view. Jesus. How many men are on this forum who need that reassurance? Didn't you all have English teachers who taught that saying "in my opinion" was redundant? You know the type ... annoying rule lovers? Of course the Chrysler head is junk. Made that clear in my post. Doesn't make the entire PF design the **** show of non-flow and corners cut that the Lusso I drove was. Oh wait ... IN MY OPINION. It should go without saying. How about this. If people stop misquoting the review and not insulting me personally, I won't reply to them? Deal?
I have said how many times that my one opinion is just that? And then you posted this: 1) what started out as a really well done and in-depth comparison and review - with some balanced, "this is my view" critiques- seems to have degraded into a "and this is why I'm right and the FF is better" thread (again) I mean ... can you read for content that is WITHOUT projection on intent? Your analysis of my position was false. So I replied. I don't care what you think about the car, but don't tell me what I'm saying here. And if I want to argue back, doesn't make you wrong. We all have an opinion, and only insecure people can't take a counter argument without all the vitriole, yea? I am not here to insult people, I am here to debate the car, and RACE ... yet when there is slander and insult, yea, I will reply. Pal. Many people are biased here, and have invested in the car. And yet I'm accused of bias? Huh? No. Fact is I love cars, and I wanted to love the Lusso. I hope you love it, but you have the bias if you're invested. If I loved the car, I would tell you. I was disappointed from the get go when it came out, took the time to investigate further than many here have ... and many people agree with me, and many disagree. Life.
Okay Trump. Blame the other person for the defensiveness in you. That's rational. How many of these posts are against forum rules? Let's start with that. I think the car is a fail. You may well disagree. Let's discuss.
Yet no one but you feels the need to defend an "opinion". I value your opinion, like I value everyone's. I'm not arguing that your opinion is wrong. It's an opinion, there is no right or wrong. See how that works? Given the host of your touchy-feely and aesthetic issues, can you possibly concede that it was a pre-production press car and just maybe the finished product will be better? There is a big difference between this: "meh, not a fan of the new interior, I like the styling elements of the FF a little better" and this: "the interior is a grievous s***show of bad lines and incoherent elements. I'm an artist and this is fact.". Certainly nobody's objective should be to make everyone happy, but some folks seem to go out of their way to irritate people for no good reason other than they need a hug. So have a virtual hug, my friend. And enjoy your FF. It is a very special car and I'm glad you love it so much. Give her a hug too. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Your post is personal, and off topic, and yet I will engage. Concede? Damn ... I have said so many times, I hope it's a press car! ... waiting on the real cars. Speculation is just that. Aesthetics are big part of the Ferrari I love. Everyone makes a good car, a fast car. You disagree? By all means buy up the branding. Slander. Never said my opinion is fact. The leather was not the same quality, many people felt it, and that I would call a fact. The plastic on the front and rear end was flimsy. That's a fact. To my eye the Lusso I saw, which I said up front could be not real, is a cheap RACE car. The design is not going to change, and it's not holding up to me as a 400,000 car. Would you like me soften that for you? Who needs a hug again?? There you go again ... "some folks seem to go out of their way to irritate people." That implication is a projection, at least, and a slander. Also personal. Against the rules ! Maybe people don't see eye to eye, and disagree, as an innate fact of life. And these kids of discussion show us who can deal with that and who can't. Plenty of people have said they have no issue with me, and have not been personal and insulting or even condescending. Some Ferrari people are insecure rich men, some are elitist a holes, some are car lovers, many are very cool. I know the score here. Mixed group.
hahahahaha - post of the year as far as im concerned i will sleep better tonight knowing the cavallino wont be plastic. i can say no matter what, id never buy a bentley, rolls royce, or anything else instead of a ferrari. maybe in addition to, but never in place of, no matter what.
good job brian, you managed to irritate one of the most balanced, unemotional, and level headed guys on the board. well done. brian do you acknowledge that you are passive aggressive? or is it all a conspiracy against you? does it irk you that alot of guys on here pay cash for their new ferraris, LEs etc?
Oh boy ... 1. Wealth is never a test of character. And never upsetting, or awe inspiring. It's nothing to me if you are rich or poor. I know some great people with millions and a couple with billions and I measure success in other ways. Your question, a projection, shows that you think money and likely financial power is important. Thanks for clarifying that. Speaking of wealth being unimportant to character, have you seen Narcos on Netflix? 60 million a day they were making at one point! Damn. What a mess that was. 2. Passive Aggressive ... you don't seem to understand. When it comes to making a point, or clarifying my points that are being misinterpreted through the defensiveness of others who are projecting as you have just done .... I'm actually very clear, very direct, and you might even read it as aggressive. "Passive Aggressive is indirect resistance to the demands of others and an avoidance of direct confrontation, as in procrastinating, pouting, or misplacing important materials. " 3. Bottom line, some people are unable to see that I can have a well reasoned view, and defend that perspective, and at the same time see there is no right or wrong, it's simply a discussion about design or corporate policy, etc. Those folks need the conversation or criticism to go down as they would do it or else they judge and project what my issues must be, based not on me, but on their issues. Exactly as you just did. 4. This is 100% personal, PS, you are out of bounds. It would be nice to get back to the cars, yes? I have no interest in this petty personal BS, but if you keep saying things that require a clarification or response I will continue to reply.
Loyalty is at times a positive quality, although it can make us blind in other circumstances. Even irrational. I'm interested in Ferrari maintaining integrity through the RACE era. I feel like the newer cars have been very well made in the last 6 years or so, and the designs from PF were a pinnacle accomplishment of both design integrity and materials quality. 360 and 430 and 599 and 612 era far less interesting to me from an engineering and design standpoint as the 458/F12/FF era TDF is a fun look, works as a muscle car, and is a quality build (skipping the paint issues). Lusso is not worthy of the badge. And that's only my perspective, for now. When other evidence is available, it can change. For the 10th time maybe, I'm 100% hoping the delivered Lusso are better than I saw. Far be it from this review to matter to anyone buying one, or those making them. I simply offer a clear opinion, and some people can't deal.
You guys pay cash for your 400k Ferraris? Poor lil ole me could only pay cash for a cpoed Porsche c4s. You must live ridiculously amazing lives
That OP is on a 'last man standing' mission which although amusing to start with has become tiresome.
This thread is over for me -- should be renamed "GTC4 Lusso haters" I vote that we all ditch this abnoxious thread and focus on the upcoming test drive events that Ferrari is kindly sponsoring at Courmayeur starting from end Oct - in the 10 - 20 test vehicles they are providing which im sure will only have vinyl seats, steel wheels, no paint, and hand-wound windows instead of electric ones.....
As you continue to post personal insults, it's clear the hypocrisy of these posts is unclear to you. I will post a reply to anyone who misquotes the review or wrongly characterizes my intent. There are people enjoying the thread. The cool thing to do is leave it, if you are not.
Again, projection. The hater here is you. It's a review, one opinion only ... not an ass kissing contest. Sarcastic remarks are failure to contribute in any way, but please, go on. It seems I have struck a nerve and you just can't stop.
Haha. Totally. I've never seen anything even remotely sensitive come from Entropy, and he offers usually the most fair opinions of anyone, not to mention probably has more experience with all these cars that the vast majority on here.
Good heavens! What happened to this thread? The sooner they put Valium in the water the better. May see some of you at Courmeyeur for the driving jolly.
