Countach, the ultimate supercar

Raymond,

I'm very curious to understand your motivation to discredit #112.1164 by all manners as possible, as you demonstrated for 3 days already ?

You started it, nobody else, and you continue…

I’m very RELAX, I’m not involved in its ownership, I’m considering myself as NEUTRAL with an historian approach based on my own investigations and numerous interviews over the last 10 years (to prepare my Lamborghini encyclopaedia).


Will you be kind to explain to the audience what does it bring for you to mention it was not in good shape back in 2003, who cares 13 years later ? When we all know how perfect it is today ?

I can affirm you that Ferruccio wasn’t a wash guy or even a wax guy, so probably yes, his Countach wasn’t shining when you saw it first.

Since, it changed hands from Patrizia Lamborghini to its current owner - who dedicated it so much attention to have it perfectly detailed like it deserves.


350 GTV, #112.0001 (that you have found), Shah of Persia, ex Joe #4884, #6009 (my ex that I discovered) and so many others Bulls weren't in good shape... but not #112.1164 as you discredited it.


It is a pity that you missed the opportunity to see how wonderful it is during the Lamborghini 50 Giro in 2013 either at the family Museo in Renazzo, or, at La Fiorita for the celebration organised by Patrizia and Teresa !

Since, it was even featured in magazine "Classic & Sportcars" where you can see how awesome it is.

Are you speaking about a car that you don’t know really ? That’s a fact.

I will say it is surprising me and many people that your pseudo integrity is falling into an evident plot against #112.1164 !

Is it a goal to achieve consisting to use all rumours and all scenarios to discredit #112.1164 ?


Did you ever read in all the lists only one car where it is mentioned specifically : "Ferruccio Lamborghini" ?

The answer is : No

With his brother "Edmundo Lamborghini", Yes

Even if we know several cars Ferruccio ordered for himself, or he owned personally or he just used some from the production cars before delivery... mentions were not : "Ferruccio Lamborghini".


You speak about Walter Wolf tuning modifications like the Holy Grail... ok, why not… but did you ask yourself before WW what could happen if there was no oïl crisis back in 1973-74 ?

Or did you ask yourself what could happen if Ferruccio didn’t sell his company to Rosetti ?

Or what could happen if the Mimran brothers didn't show up ?

For this scenario I can give you the answer : Ferruccio Lamborghini would have become the owner again... for how long I don't know !

Another fact, the Mimran family wasn't the only one wealthy to buy the factory... others opportunities could happen too !

It is only because Mimran offered a higher bid than Ferruccio to Judge Mironne of Bologna Court of Justice that they got the factory.

Because you like to ask yourself good question with WW car, ask yourself another good question : what could happen if Mimran never paid attention in buying the plant?

Ferruccio was the only one to make a bid and the Judge would have accepted his offer (this testimony is from 2x direct witnesses).


You are playing with the period licence plates today, and so what is your demonstration ? apparently you are just expressing all scenarios possible to get the mud out of it !



ONE FACT, you don’t know about the history of #112.1164, we all understood it.

I can tell, you will wait a little bit more to read it. As you wrote : many wrong stories have been told or written, so wait and PLEASE stop bad mouthing about it in the meantime !


Or, I do invite you to investigate as a diligent historian, and then when you will have a good history to give us, then you can write something really intelligent, which is not the case so far despite all the energy you spent…


ONE FACT, speaking about Ferrari or Maserati or Bugatti : No other vehicle are as historically important as the one drove and owned PERIOD by their creators/founders !!!
This is the same for LAMBORGHINI, what so ever is the color or the area where it has been registered.


Again, the ultimate Countach is a subjective choice/taste, it can be the one the Countach owner has in his garage, it could be the Silvera’s car, Leimer’s one, Mimran’s one, WW, Shah’s Periscopa, and so on…

But the subjective topic is not related to HISTORIC criteria, which topic is different than the subjective choice.

Only one Countach was owned by Ferruccio Lamborghini, the man that started his company, gave his name to the brand for posterity.

Yes there is NO DOUBT, that car holds HISTORIC importance over ANY OTHER Lamborghini... JUST for that historical fact alone.

 

Olivier, I don't know what problem you have, but I was wasn't badmouthing #1121264 at all, in 2003 it was not in a nice shape, that is all what I wrote and is what I can stand behind, period.

 

Of course I didn't expect you to agree with me but I did NOT say that the lists were complete rubbish. Those are entirely your words. I said that the hand written lists were not reliable. And maybe, just maybe, the record for the red/white Countach in question might be wrong. Can you prove the record is correct? I think not. Yet the basis for your argument is that the record is correct, even in the face of considerable information to the contrary.

Perhaps the Miura and Countach records are more accurate than the Urraco, I cannot say. However the Urraco hand written lists are littered with inconsistencies and the various lists for the Silhouette have varying interior colour schemes.

I have followed up on this particular Luci del Bosco Urraco in person at the factory and I was kindly shown the computerised record held by Polo Storico which also states Grigio Londra. No satisfactory explanation was forthcoming. I have not seen the build sheets which may hold the answer but then I have never seen a Grigio Londra Urraco either!

 

Olivier, at the risk of repeating myself I did NOT say that the lists were complete rubbish. I said that the hand written lists were not reliable. I am closer to your view than perhaps you may think.

 

I agree

 

I've no problem and the numerous people who consulted me over these 3 days either !

just read what & how you wrote about #112.1164

end of story !

 

And FINALLY, as you will no doubt be relieved to hear, here is what Old Timer Australia have to say...

...The factory records note the car as being finished in ‘grigio londra’, however, the car has always been remembered as being ‘luci del bosco’ (lights of the forest) being a stunning period colour. A recent bare metal repaint confirms the car was undoubtedly finished in ‘luci del bosco’ from new...

1977 Lamborghini Urraco P300 | Oldtimer Australia, classic cars, racing cars, sports cars

Those Urraco lists are certainly unreliable...and the Countach lists are all perfectly correct?! Sure they are...

 

interesting read, i add my personal opinion since the ultimate countach is a very personal idea.

to me 1121002 is the ultimate because it has a lot of special features and unique tecnical specs:

- special tuned engine with better performance, only 400S with this special engine built
- unique special options requested by owner
- special color and on request livery
- first LP400S
- first famous owner
- first owner important for lamborghini and countach history
- featured in hundreds of books, videos, models ...etc

put all these toegether and is A LOT of a car!
THEN just look at it! is a fantastic car ...awesome version and livery!

to me a car is defined first from what it IS and then by its owners...but this car has both and more

i understand the historical importance of the LP400S owned by Ferruccio but if i could choose to have one at home it would be 1121002 without any single doubt

i do not believe mine to be the ultimate since there are more special ones for different reasons.... of course i am very attached to my countach S aniway
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So much passion in the F-Chat arena those days with you fighting (raging?) bulls.

I know this annoys some precious (potential and/or previous) contributors... but I love this kind of debates here.

Yes, there's really room for this debate. We're actually talking about God's personal Countach!
Was it Red like a Demon, or White as an Angel? Registered in the city of Jupiter... to be driven where Bacchus enjoys the grapes?
Why, oh why? Will we ever know?

Andiamo! List. What about the Countach list? Wait. Did I say list? My bad. I meant LISTS. Plural.
There's more than only one list for the Countach production. In fact, I counted 3 different "official" delivery lists for the LP400 alone!
And guess what? All those 3 lists, whether they be handwritten or typed, have some differences between them.
Different colors (exterior and/or interior), sometimes it's just different color names (Blu Metallizzato vs. Blu Notte vs. Blu Thaiti vs. Azzurro Dino blablabla), and sometimes different orders or precisions (dealer, broker, owner, ex-owner, city, country, etc.)... in some of those lists but not in all of them.
What does it mean? Ma, questa è l'Italia !

The "tiny" percentage of "mistakes" becomes more than just tiny after you laid eyes on these.
In fact, it all became an obsession to me. I spent thousands of hours on that matters. A freakin' obsession!
The only way to understand was to find them all. Like for the 150 Pokémons, I have to catch 'hem all!
Today, 145 of them, for which 140 VIN are known. I guess I can live with the 5 others missing to me.
And now doing the same madness with the LP400S production.

What's the result in regards to today's topic? Understanding those factory lists are a wonderful source of knowledge. Yes. Undoubtedly.
Yet, this is not enough to make a particular car's history file. Looking for facts, some other documents, testimonies... a real investigation is necessary.

Some Countach were ordered X-color and are X-noted in the lists but for Y-reasons the car was Y-painted and Y-different... and this is sometimes mentioned, sometimes not, depending on the car and also depending on what list you're reading. And when a car was Z-modifed after the consignment date, the Z-reason is sometimes mentioned, sometimes not, depending on the car and also depending on what list you're reading.
Fantastico!

I've personally seen two of the three LP400 lists and only one of the two LP400S lists.
(and there could be more lists)
Yet, I can tell you for sure, the two handrwitten Countach LP400 lists were written by the same person. One has more precisions for some car but also more "mistakes" compared with what seems to be the true car's finish, while the other list has some recopy mistakes and/but much less precision on some particular cars (owner, dealer, VIN change, etc.).

And when I compare those documents with our precious files collected on (almost) each and every Countach of the 1970s and early 1980s, yes, there are even more "mistakes" than we thought.
The lists are a 100%-accurate document telling you how the car SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Therefore, when I first read #1121164 was finished 'Rosso - Nero', I told to myself "That's probably true".
After I got to know this particular car's history, and that it was finished 'Bianco - Nero' from new, I then admitted to myself: "That must be true."
And when I think about it again those days, I now dream to myself: "There might be some red paint under that white paint. Let's go scratch its body to check the layers..."

 

Exactly so Victor...

 

Thank you so much Victor

Your funny approach is exactly what it is about all the listsss...

and God's car as you mentionned is one part of the mystery so far, but one day its story will bright for everyone !

 

Even if the car mentionned was scheduled to be red on the order list, what is the most important is to recognise that the final buyer - God himself - had the car personnalised to his taste, so in Bianco at the Delivery...

Amen !

 

Havent' you mentionned enough Urraco to come back to Countach... so do it too... enough Miura.. we were all speaking about the Ultimate Countach

 

Nope, JUST Opinions as all others are and as well as yours is...

but if you have CLAD IRON documentation, share it with he community...after all what do you have to hide??