is the bubble due to burst?

Well, I can only watch in wonder at the press coverage of deutsche bank, only a couple of years ago the most sound financial institution in the world.. now with so much coverage something is wrong... will it fail, I hope not but like many have said before it is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy..
The Ferrari market is a lot safer than money in the bank.. I would rather have assets to touch and feel rather than shares or money in the bank, especially Deutsche Bank.
F40's, GTO, Enzo's or money in a failed bank....

 

IF Deutsche bank goes down ..it will take a whole load of other ships with it, truly terrifying.
My guess is the US can't afford to hit it with such a huge fine ..as that could trigger something a lot bigger in the US.

 

Ferrari 308 GTB, I think they will, to teach the Euorpean's a lesson over the Apple tax laws.
Its tit for tat at the moment.
Like every asset class, confidence is the driving factor, and all this does it once again prove cash or having to put cash in banks is very risky.
Alternative assets are here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1835560/brit-man-stuns-car-dealership-in-kent-buying-six-ferraris-without-even-looking-at-them-and-sent-top-gears-stig-to-test-drive-them/

 

This doesn't look good.

 

£600k looks like a good deal !

 

I'm referring to someone buying a bunch of cars with scared money. I doubt the buyer intends on driving these cars.

 

I think there has been a crazy turn in the more modern cars, which leads them susceptible to the first correction. The older cars have the biggest risk of old generation vs new generation of buyers, but once electronics come into play, unless the next generation of collectors find it fun to revitalize electronics ( which I could see happening), there will be a disconnect.

Shawn

 

Ok understood,yes there is a lot of cash still floating around the world,question is what to do with it ?

With the uncertainty in Uk due Brexit etc property market looking wobbly.
Bank interest near to zero
Share market looking bit wobbly too
Art/wines see above.

I guess he will drive few times a year on trips to UK,at least he has got more than a piece of paper ( 6 beautiful Ferrari's)... they might fluctuate a bit in price but it's unlikely he will need to offload them fast at any stage ...so all in all a good buy .if he eventually sells then probably no capital gains tax too.

Smart guy imho.

 

What I understand from friends in economics Deutsche Bank was a zombie in 2007/2008, and since then only expanded on an already insanely large derivatives portfolio. It was never a secure/sound bank and is/was bound to hit a wall.
Europe in my view is a mess and the EUR especially. I fully expect the EUR at parity with USD in the coming year or so. And as a result I have posted here before that I expect stabilization of prices in USD terms, but in EUR terms could be a different matter entirely.

 

Property looking wobbly indeed, bonds too, what is left to flow your cash to? Stocks, USD and other assets, like art and cars imho.

 

Buy one of the Ferrari Supercars (GTO/F40/F50/Enzo), a Lamborghini Miura (any variant) or a Countach Downdraft!

 

Yes great idea (dream) F40 is the cheapest by far right now? Dear Santa...

 

While I understand that cars should be driven. And I always love when enthusiasts buy cars....

Not driving the car isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Most people who work in cubicles have no intention of owning a fraction of exxon mobile or maybe ford motor company or GMAC. But they do.

Most people who buy Ford on the stock market don't ever intend to design, build, maintain a ford.

Cars have changed they have become alternative assets.



Or rather SOME cars have become alternative assets.

Snake oil salesmen have tried to stretch that grouping of SOME and oversold many cars to be in that class when they are not. That sector is where the issue will be where prices were raised due to false hope, false representation and flat out bull****. There were plenty of people listening and while the buying and selling was going it was a "proven" model. When the buying cools/ed off... it will be the real tell tale. This is why some people in this thread have errouneously called it a Ponzi scheme. It wasn't a direct Ponzi as there was no single benefactor etc... however, the self fullfilling prophecy and "proven" track record was the same as a Ponzi so it shares many characteristics and was pretty much sold with similar tactics. Again, not unlike the housing boom.

I think that puts a nice little bow on it.

I think I solved it.

**** it I solved it. Close and lock the thread. LOL

 

The problem from an enthusiast viewpoint is investors drive prices up when scared and down when they dump to move back into the stock market or whatever.

 

I work as a senior (ish) partner in a large profitable law firm, let me tell you 25 years ago all the young lawyers wanted a 911 or 355 etc.

Now a few things - wife's much more emboldened and moaning "we could have a kitchen", they dont aspire to cars in the same depth and they dont like assets that require maintenance. They dont like conspicuous consumption.

Plus the whole climate change thing.

Bottom line - they are not like us !! Impact on market - unclear. Plus emerging markets may fill the void.

 

Yes those are the OTHER cars I was speaking of.

Just know not to buy in the hype and only to sell.

I made a post at some point when a guy was talking about his 430 spider he paid 130k or something like that and now that its worth 250k he wouldn't sell it for 350k (it was something along these lines)

I just said, don't be the guy who complains when is car is only worth 90 or 100 then when the car is no longer "fashionable" You can't only take the highs... well you can... you just have to know when to get off the ride...

 

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CH1016-257670/1999-ferrari-550-maranello/

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CH1016-272550/1977-porsche-930-turbo/

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CH1016-272568/1985-porsche-911-turbo/

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CH1016-272874/1984-porsche-911-targa/

 

67 k for that 550 damn....

 

Must have been something wrong with that car. Dash has some fugazi material on it..

 

Ya think?

Here's a perfectly normal yet unexceptional 550 that was sold by a better auction house at the same venue on the same day. $280k plus.

1998 Ferrari 550 Maranello | Gooding & Company

Let's get real here. People can pull out all of the basket case freak show cars they want to "prove" alleged 60% drops across the board but that just isn't the truth. The truth is that good cars get good money and crap cars get crap money. I don't think that's particularly exciting or surprising to anyone who actually walks the auctions and views the cars in person, as has been stated numerous times in this thread.

 

I am not following this that closely, but I am a bit confused - the link you posted is from Pebble Beach a few months ago, the one posted above from Mecum was from this weekend. Not from the same day...?

 

The link took me to a 550 sold at Mecum in Monterey on that same day, not a newer auction.

My point is that a lot of this is meaningless unless the car can be seen in person so that people can understand if we are truly seeing apples to apples, particularly at Mecum which is known to all experienced bidders as a "buyer beware" auction house.

 

Seems like a very reasonable take!

 

I believe it was from yesterday, Saturday October 8, at the Mecum Chicago auction. You can see it in the list here - lot S109: https://www.mecum.com/auctions/chicago-2016/lots/page/21/

Btw - I noticed in another thread that you sold your 550. It seemed like a great example, curious why you decided to part with it?

 

Long story that's detailed in the owners section and I don't particularly want to go over it all here. It is a stellar car and I hardly see any 550s that are as nice. I traded it for a perfect 2007 F430 with 8k miles and all of the options and colors I wanted (plus some cash back).