Mondial Fire Question

My '84 Cabrio just was totaled in a fire. I was driving it back from the upholstery shop after having a new top installed. Several friends have mentioned that they recalled fuel or vent lines having to be moved or disconnected for the installation. I've not yet talked to the shop because I don't want to accuse without having my facts. Can someone give me an absolute answer on that matter?
Thanks,
Steve

 

Wow, really sorry to hear that. Hopefully everyone is okay.

 

Really sorry to hear this.
I cannot give you anything absolute. I had my top redone last year and they made no mention of having to do this. I doubt the installer in my case would have touched any lines without telling me. I cannot think of any reason any fuel or vent lines would need to be removed.

 

My top is on top and fuel lines below. I see no reason for top installer to have anything to do with them. I think this just proves the point that fuel lines and other fuel components have to be closely monitored , repaired and replaced. I think any mid engine Ferrari is subject to spontaneous combustion. Sorry for your loss. Hope everything turns out ok for you.

 

All I would say is that if something is disturbed the risk of failure is greatly increased. This happens for a number of reasons.
Old pipes or joints fail due to fatigue that is made worse by the recent attention or incorrect fitment of the components in the area if recent attention.
I would get an assessment made by a professional who is bloody well recommended and go from there, but to be honest your car is insured anyway so probably no need.
What a bummer...

 

Sorry about your loss, I hope it was insured. It is possible, and indeed somewhat likely that something was disturbed but do not rule out the possibility it is just a coincidence, you also need to think about other things recently done to it. For instance did you just top it off with fuel (see the other thread about a gas leak after topping off). Etc.
Do you have any idea where the fire started? What makes you think it was fuel that caused it and not electrical or oil?

 

Get as many pictures as possible. Get the fuel system diagram(s) from one of our parts vendors and see if you can follow the fuel lines in the car. While they are probably all completely melted, maybe you can see how this started.
Glad no one was hurt. Really sorry about the car.

 

Very sorry to hear about the car, glad everyone is ok.

For those that might want to look into an automated system, not sure it would of helped in Steve's case, but would deal with a fire started in the engine bay:

BlazeCut Fire Suppression System (Description | BlazeCut)

A youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kswau1mGBE8)

I've got them in my cars.

 

Wow- looks like good, cheap insurance. Any pics of install on your Mondial?

 

Super sorry to hear this..



Hope nobody was injured. Did you ever find the cause?

 

Sorry to hear about your car. Hope you had enough insurance to replace the car if that is the route you wish to go. I've had my top replaced and I've pulled the engine out myself. I can't imagine where these two would cross paths. The fuel lines are mostly very low. Probably a coincidence.

 

+1. I'd love to see pics of these installed on a Mondial.

Very sorry to hear about the OP's car.

 

Sorry about your loss

there is no correlation with the top on top and fuel lines underneath

 

Sorry it took so long to get the pics, been tied up.

Here is the BlazeCut in my car. Note it is attached to the lid and does not contact any items in the engine bay when the lid is closed. It is attached with zip ties. The tube has a built in pressure gauge that, as I've installed the tube, is easily visible when you open the lid. Yes, they can slowly leak and loose pressure so, like any fire extinguisher check the gauge now and then.
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Thanks for the pics, Cody. How long is the one you got and where did you get it?

 

I got the 6' one from here. It's $128 plus tax/shipping.

BlazeCut Fire Suppression System TV200FA, 6' ? JOGR

 

Thanks, Cody! Seems like cheap insurance. The videos on YouTube are pretty interesting, although I have to wonder how much effectiveness would be lost since our engine covers are vented.

 

OMG. This is terrible.

I hope your insurance covers it, but I know mine doesn't.

I have an all risk, theft, vandalization, windows, nature forces,...., all included.
Fire is included, but only when the car is parked, not while driving. Check it out.
I sure hope yours is covered!

Perhaps, there is no correltion between the soft top installment and a fuel leak in the engine compartment, but I would let a GOOD (or maybe the best) car fire expert investigate your car, with your mechanic on the scene.

I hope it works out well for you.



On the on board fire exthinguisher tube: I helps to your mental peace, but in an engine fire in your Mondial it's worthless.

 

Ditto on the sentiments.


Honest question ... why 'Worthless?'

 

Yes, the car would be a parts car at best after an engine fire.

But............

I had to bail out of my mid engine Lotus when the engine caught fire 40 years ago. I can still remember it like it was yesterday due to the sheer terror I endured being that close to the flames. I could feel the intense heat on the back of my neck.

It took me about 30 seconds to slow down enough to get out and the car was still moving when I jumped. That was the longest 30 seconds of my life, I was expecting the twin fuel tanks to explode at any moment and burn me alive.

Does anyone really want to live thru that experience? Or put your passenger thru it too?

A fire suppression system is not meant to save the car, but give the driver and passenger(s) time to get out and safely away from the vehicle.

$128 is chump change for Ferrari stuff and cheap insurance for peace of mind IMHO. I am going to order and install one of those suppression systems ASAP.
Alden

 

From the info the biggest capacity is 1 kg, which is 1 litre or about 2 pints of water- you have got to hope it is enough to get it 1st time. Better than nothing through I suppose.

 

I consider it more of a first line of defense. I'd expect to have to use my extinguisher as well.

 

Thanks for posting the pics! For $128 it seems like a pretty reasonable thing to try out. I wrote to the company with questions, because my concern would be that the hose could get "set off' without an actual fire, but just from a hot engine bay. The company says the melt point is 248 degrees. They say they've had one reported incident of a unit discharging without a fire. It was in a Vanagon and the the tube was touching the engine. There is supposed to be zero residue left by the discharged agent, but not so sure it would be a good thing to have happen. Any ideas on what damage it could cause to a engine if it accidentally discharged? The agent used is - HFC-236fa which is the generic name for DuPont FE-36.

How much clearance have you got between the tubing and the engine? Can you tell?

At the end of the day I think having your fuel lines/hoses checked out annually and not being cheap about replacing them is the best way to prevent a fire, which is what you want, really - to prevent rather than extinguish.

Most Ferrari's don't explode, thankfully. (Knock wood!) But this seems like a cheap and easy way to have a little extra security, at least just to give some extra time to bail if you need it.

 

Not sure of an answer for your first question, but I suspect other than the discharge shock wave, very little: "FE-36™ is discharged as a stream of gas and liquid droplets that penetrate into the fire area, ceasing the combustion process through heat absorption and a chemical interaction. FE-36™ is safe for people, a clean agent that does not leave a residue, electrically non-conductive, noncorrosive and no thermal shock"

As for clearance, the tube itself is only about 1/2 inch thick and sits flush against the underside of the lid. and none of it is directly over any hot components, and sits well around the perimeter. Take another look at the photo, and I hope you'll see what I mean. The closest "hot item" is the coolant expansion tank where the non-pressure gauge end is, and the bottom of the tube is abut 1 1/2 inches above it, and 1 inch from the filler cap.

There is no substitute for good preventive maintenance, and I'm not shy about that at all.

 

Yeah it certainly seems worth a try. Why not at 128 bucks?