The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Very well put.

I think the thing that drives me batty is the "droves of people who followed him blindly" Its so true. So so many did and just bought the bull**** hook line and sinker and would just defend him to the death. It was and is CRAZY.

 

I admit I was convinced early on that it was indeed built upon the remains of #0846, but recently Steve managed to locate some really telling photos and now think the complete opposite.

If only we had had those photos 12 (?) years ago!! I believe if solid evidence like that had been found early on and before this became an emotional crusade I believe Jim would have accepted that indeed he was wrong and it is just a replica (maybe it would never have been finished and his focus would have become #0854 with the components of the replica being spare parts?). But a lot time and energy has been spent over the years and it is hard to step down after such an investment.

This investment or commitment is obvious because the #0846 replica is used and displayed by Jim so much more than #0854, or so I believe.
Pete

 

He's a busy guy, in his retirement.

He retired from this thread, I will just leave it there.

There are obviously other parts of the car Ferrari is interested in confirming.
He will be back to explain, I am sure.

 

Lots of historic cars are used that way. Especially with a collection like Mr. G's!!

I think he really like the Baja rig the best!!
Paperwork is simpler......

 

Pie in the sky, eh?

Ferrari is confirming what? Ferrari is even confirming? Beyond doubtful.

At best there would be some scattered parts that are from the period's parts bin. Not a chassis, not an engine. Certainly no continuity of provenance. Just some debunked stories.

 

Claquers remain claquers as do wind vanes. However, the pdf was never a consistent story, as Doug Nye and others pointed out rather early but were rudely shut down with some astonishing arguments like banning for 'trolling' and 'you come off as an ass' to mention just a few ... amazing indeed. But let's wait what Ferrari will - eventually - produce ...

 

Trust me I would't be standing next to it. I would be in it and driving it. I owned a Ferrari in Italy for four years. Some of the best roads are in the southern half. of the Appenines. Very few small towns and a farm from time to time. The roads are in good condition, well marked for what is coming over the next rise and there is a minimal of traffic. A three wheel pick up truck, an old Fiat or a blue commuter bus is about it or a group of moto riders letting it all hang out,The views are spectacular and there is a nice little taverna from time to time.Be sure you start out with a full tank of fuel.Your gas mileage with all those high revs gear changes will use up the fuel big timeas gas station are few and far between. Driving thru the country side of Italy is the real thing and this is some of the best. Enjoy tonga's crew

 

Certainly the F1 engine is a Piper mod, once quality at Classiche gets better, maybe get that fixed!

Coming to Austin F1?
Would love to show you the town..

 

I will need a copilot in my FIAT 200O!!

 

Won't be making the trip from Dallas to Austin.

Jeff

 

When and if you take the time to go thru this entire thread, which will be a challenge to say the least, you will come across some posts from "tongascrew".The star of this show is Sal, Jim's chief mechanic who has done the lion's share of the research and restoration,rebuild work of 0846. He seems to prefer to put in the thousands of hours it has taken to get things right in the back room and doesn't get a fraction of the credit he deserves.He is the real hero of the project and yet like one other person doesn't get the credit he deserves.When if ever has he been invited to the party The other person is David Piper. Just remember without Piper, Jim Glickenhous would be no where with a this project. One of the great mysteries is the meeting between David Piper and Enzo Ferrai who basicly gave Piper just about everything that remained at the of the of the P series car project that Piper had been such a major part of over several years.Always in need of funding Piper sold the remains of a P series car to Jim who took it back home and the rest is history.But rather than appreciate what E.F. did for him Jim Glickenhaus proceeded continusly to bad mouth Enzo Ferrari at every possible moment.What was the point of this remains a mystery. except that Glickenhaus organized a group ignorant yahoos who beat the band insulting and castigating E.F. particularly on Ferrari Chat and for what? All this accomplished was to allenate Glickenhaus from the Ferrari community and even to this day he is not invited to the party. Just as well in my opinion but it didn't have to happen this way. tong's crew

 

This might be an argument within an argument... but its not even really a Piper Mod... The car isn't modified. Its a replica. So the engine is "close"

A modification would be to something original. Original this car is not.

 

I feel the next book on the best seller list for those who believe 0846 is not Jim's car will be called,..."Crow And How To Eat It", by James Glickenhaus.

 

Wow Tonga, that sounds like an amazing time in your life, good for you. Do you mind me asking what Ferrari you were experiencing this in?

One does has to wonder what the chassis was that Marcel saw, and what happened to it...

 

BINGO!

 

When the list of original 0846 parts does not include chassis, engine or gearbox is there much left that would matter?

 

maybe im not sophisticated enough to understand the sarcasim... but are you saying you think that the car is real and we will be eating crow soon?

I can tell you this... if Ferrari just says it is 0846 and has no supporting evidence I will not eat crow. I will just lose respect for Ferrari.

Now if they have supporting evidence and can prove that it is 0846 etc... can I at least have some steak sauce or ketchup at the very least?

 

The gearbox is not F1 - it is a P3 box and likely was fitted on 0844, 0846 or 0848 in 1966.

Paul M

 

Did not say that the gearbox is F1. But what if it is not an original Ferrari build?

 

The only way for pictures in the past to possibly confirm the identity of something, is if the frame exactly matches those pictures. And even then, it is up for scrutiny. Anything can happen over time. I am not saying that makes it so, but to say this chassis is different than the pictures is not conclusive. Many cars have been built up from partial remains, and many of those remains may have been modified. Again not saying it is 0846, but to say this is different, so it cannot be, is only looking at half of the picture of time. For all we know the remains of 0846 ended up in a late 70's BMX frame that was raced vigorously in Bratislava in the early 80's, or maybe they truly were destroyed by Ferrari in the late 60's. Who knows?

Cars have been built up from very little when it comes to chassis remains. We shall see if Napolis still believes if any of these remains reside in the chassis he possesses. Till he has his say, I feel it is naive to think that any of these conclusions are fact.

And then there is the question that still begs answering: What was the frame Marcel saw in Switzerland? I am of the belief that Marcel has the knowledge to identify a frame as being of a certain construction, versus another. Was it a replica? And where has that frame gone? Is it in Jim's car? Is it in another one of Piper's replica's? Is it in the basement of a bagel shop in New York? That frame went somewhere and something happened to it. So....

 

And maybe Divine intervention will make this replica real. You know, like the water into wine. Don't quite think so.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCtC-LoOvqs

 

I predict that this replica will be for sale soon and fully disclosed as a very good replica. I just cannot see an owner like Jim hanging on to a replica, when he has the real deal with #0854. Sure while there was a possibility of it being #0846 it was in the "I'll never sell basket" but now it is well proven to be just another DP replica it is taking up space in his large workshop.

Pete