where to buy suspension parts?

items in store on eBay!

This guy without a doubt. You will need to negotiate on price but he will do you a great deal.

 

US guys will be able to get bargains from UK suppliers such as Superformance and Maranellos with the exchange rate being what it is at the moment!

 

With the pound tanking get everything from Superformance before they raise their prices. It's around 200 pounds for the front and 210 for the back (complete bush sets.)

 

I used Superformance before the change in the exchange rate.... wasn't that expensive even then... good quality parts

 

Ferrari 246 / 308 Suspension Polybush Kit - Bell Classics

 

From that website's description: "These high-quality bushes offer an improvement in ride quality as well as increased life over the original rubber bushes."

How can poly bushings last longer than the rubber bushes? They have surfaces that wear against each other each time the suspension arm moves, whereas the silentblocs do not. Maybe if you never drive the car they will last longer than the originals. My poly bushes were in only 2 years/2000 miles and had some wear when I removed them.

Improved ride quality? How? They are less compliant.

Or do I misunderstand poly bushings?

 

I share your disbelief. Maybe something has changed, but I've also always understood poly to be harder and less durable than rubber. Great for short term track use where they get switched out regularly, not so good for long term road use where you'd want many years and thousands or tens of thousands of miles out of them..

 

There have been recent developments in polyurethane bushes, there is a UK company which now makes bonded poly bushes for several cars which are the same design as the rubber but using poly. So they don't have moving parts.

Not sure if these fall into that category though. If they have parts rotating against each other they are cheap junk which will debase the suspension design of the car.

 

Jordan B works for Bell Classics so could maybe he could tell us...

 

Sorry for the late reply only just re read through f chat !

So when we had these bushes made it was originally for a 246 when the customer wanted longer lasting bushes for when the car isn't being driven but it couldn't compromise ride.

We sent bushes that we had bought from the main sources ( not sure if I can name them so won't ) to the uks leader in poly bushes (again not sure if I can mention names so won't ) and they agreed to help us so they ran some tests on the bushes we sent them to get a reading of how compressible they are and how durable they are then they advised us on the best compound that would be closest to the originals plus a harder compound for track use if we ever needed them.
We then designed the basic kit to utilise the outer bush that is spot welded onto the wishbone so the poly bush sits inside of that with the flanged inner inside giving the look of the original bush, which is what we looked for for classiche reasons.
We chose the polyurethane as it is a self lubricating material that doesn't "dry out" like rubber would over time and although the bush is free to rotate withing the outer sleeve regarding all surfaces have been cleaned and prepped before hand the bush shouldn't get pulled apart by the suspension. Also by letting it to rotate within the sleeve the stressed area of the bush is constantly changing so the torsional forse that goes through a fixed rubber bush doesnt occur with this style !

I hope this sheds some light on the matter ! Didn't want to put a big sales pitch with the link as if you had more questions I thought you would ask anyway the first set of bushes were fitted 2 years ago and the car has done around 2,000 miles with out an issue ! Again hope this helps

 

Andy, that is not true
I can tell this from experience !

when I changed my suspension 6 years ago I decided to just leave the spot welded sleeves of the a-arms in place,
burned out the old rubber and simply pressed the new polys in
(admittedly, at that time there was not too much experience with this kind of modification and I think Jonathan/birdman was the first to document it here on F-chat)

6 years and 10K miles later no problems at all, no squeezing, nothing ... so I´m a happy camper
sure, the ride is harder than stock and maybe not for everybody ... but in my case it is the pefect add on to my adjustable Bilstein/Eibach coil over shocks

thanks Jordan for confirming my experience -
today, I would go for your ready-to-install kits in a heartbeat

.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

This subject has been discussed on Lotus car forums in the past and the difference over there is that input is available from the people who designed the suspension in the first place and are experts in the field.

The design is essentially the same on the Esprit.

The concerns expressed by the experts were many. The most serious was the overall compliance in the bush must be similar to the original otherwise any non-rotational motion such as twisting during braking or feed-through from road shocks may cause stress on the suspension pickup points. On race cars which use solid suspension, constant crack testing is needed.
That might be the case with these bushes but would need assurance.

The other consideration is the twisting of the bush provides an element of the springing of the suspension, it is a rising-rate spring which helps to prevent the suspension bottoming-out. The suspension characteristics and ride will be changed if a free-moving bushing is used. This may or may not be a concern.

Possible wear/noise issues were also raised.

At the end of the day, there are reasons why manufacturers use comparatively expensive bonded-rubber (or bonded poly) bushes. The 458 still uses this type for these reasons.

 

+1
For me this whole poly-bushing thing is wannabe-engineering.

Best Regards
Martin

 

I think it all depends on the way you look at things, the orifinal bush which is used on the 246 was then re used on

Ferrari 208 GT4 Dino , 208 Turbo , 208 Turbo , 246 Dino, 308 GT4 Dino, 308 GT4 Dino, 308 GTB, 308 GTB, 308 GTSi, 308 Quattrovalvole, 328 , 328, 330 GTC Cou, 355, 365 GT4 Berlinetta Boxer, 456 GTA, 456 M GTA, 550 Barchetta, 550 Maranello, Mondial 3.0 QV, Mondial 3.2 QV

So from the 1970s to the early 2000s the same suspension bushes have been used so that wasn't a case of there wasn't anything better that is what ferrari had on the shelf and it was cheap and didn't need alot of re designing, but if you look at the advances in technology between a 246 dino and a 550 Maranello it's astounding, we can all agree that ferrari have a history in re using previous models components on the next generation cars wit no exception of suspension bushes so although engines horsepower, torque, reliability, emissions all improved along with introductions of ecu control and various management systems how can bushes designed 30 years ago still be used on cars 30 years later ? I don't have the answer but it's just a thing to think about ?

All we did was meet the demands of a customer and then replicated it ! Like I said earlierthere havnt been any complaints yet and ME308 seems to like the bushes he installed, i wouldn't quite call it "wannabe engineering" as we dealt with engineers who engineered what we asked for !

 

Andy & Martin,

I know your reasoning from the other thread and I really appreciate your input ... really

let´s say, 6 years ago I took a chance ... and I suceeded ... well, at least so far !

I`m not trying to persuade anybody nor can I convince anybody

it just works for me and I never looked back - if I could do it all over again, I would
.

 

This is a good, interesting, civilized discussion from enthusiasts who share the same passions but different viewpoints. Thanks to you all, and may this good attitude please gain a foothold in Washington, DC!

 

As someone who has tried both, I personally would not go back to poly bushings on my car. 3000 miles of harshness and squeaks was my experience. After two years they started to squeak. Took the wishbones and anti roll bar off to relube and 18 months later the squeak came back. The ES bushes were installed, torqued and lubed correctly both times. One wishbone pretty much always squeaked at all temps once it started... others only when it was cold (less than 10C).



Here's the thing with poly bushings... they have much less deformation than the rubber ones which is an issue within the compliance of the system as a whole as Andy points out. The bushing material is harder than the rubber therefore the shock absorption of the joint will be reduced... Now the ribber of the tire is clearly the most compliant component in the suspension so whether this is a serious issue I don't know. When I fitted the poly bushes I figured it would not be a big deal.



To say the ride quality is improved however is subjective... more accurate feedback... probably... harsher... certainly. I think most people would equate 'ride quality' with less harshness, possible at the expense of some feedback.



But coming back to the squeaks... mine was persistent while other people have none and I wondered why. It seems to me that this could be down to the fact that they do not distort radially. That means if the radial load is not perfectly even, there will be specific areas of load, increased friction and wear at those points were the load is highest. Some of the rubber bushes I have removed from my car have not been distorted, just perished. However, others have been distorted clearly showing uneven radial load. There's a photo below of a roll bar that shows this distortion even though the rubber is in generally good shape. Note how it is no longer centered. If that was a poly bushing... it would have worn unevenly. I suspect after 40 years of NY roads that the geometry of these bushings are no longer perfect enough for such rigid bushings even though the alignment is fine.



I fitted poly bushings a few years ago because it was easier than replacing silentbloks. I was also intrigued by the expected difference in feel. In the end the difference in feel was negligible to me... ride quality was hasher for sure but I cannot say I had more information from the tires. I would have probably lived with them for longer if it wasn't for the damned squeaking.



You pays your money and you makes your choice but I think it disingenuous to claim that poly bushings have better ride quality and last longer and the fact that manufacturers do not use them even though they are cheaper supports that view.

 

Not that I know anything technical, from a layman's point of view, isn't that means the bushings designed 30 years ago is still the most suitable ones whilst everything else were replaced with better ones?

 

But when they did redesign them, on the 430 and later, they still used bonded rubber.

The fact is, Ferrari (and Lotus) know a thing or two about suspension. Its a very bold claim to say that a different design is better. There is no cost-reduction reason in play either (Lotus are notorious for penny-pinching) as the bonded types are more expensive and take longer to fit so they didnt use them for cost reasons, but for engineering reasons.