This just happened. Diagnosis? | Page 5 | FerrariChat

This just happened. Diagnosis?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Archer911, Oct 21, 2016.

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  1. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    Well it looks nice and shiny at least! ;) You'll get this sorted and be enjoying the car in no time!!
     
  2. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
    907
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    Tim
    Thanks. I remain positive. Made progress today on the electrical issues.
     
  3. ixlr8

    ixlr8 Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2015
    361
    Eastern Shore- Virginia
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    Jim
    I wish you the best sorting everything out, hopefully you will have a smooth running reliable car when you are done. I bought a 550 last fall and I am finding all sorts of wires that are not Ferrari. There is a hard wired radar detector with front and rear sensors and a LoJack system, neither of which work. There is a module of some sort in the engine bay that I am not sure what it is, neither does my mechanic. Some of the wires disappear up into the headliner and I am not looking forward to pulling that to get rid of the extra junk. I will be tearing into it this winter when I put it up for the season.
     
  4. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
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    Tim
    #104 Archer911, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    ixlr8 - thanks for the commiseration.
    Today was yet another eye opener with the 308. The first discovery was a disconnected wire beneath the air filter housing (I believe this to be the wire from the ECU to the oxygen sensor but need to verify. The big discovery today was with the speedometer/odometer. I needed to check wiring behind the instruments. The speedo/odometer basically fell out. It had been out before. Broken and glued. Now why would someone take out the speedo/odometer????
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  5. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2012
    1,138
    UK
    Well, they are known for being a bit unreliable.

    I am sorry that it looks like you have bought a load of problems, but stick with it and I think you will have a great car that you will be confident in, and a host of stories to tell.
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    Yep all part of getting to know your car, and can be fun.

    Hopefully the recorded miles have not been tampered with, but who cares anyway other than timing belt age (surely you will replace those as a matter of course anyway).
    Pete
     
  7. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    There are shops that can repair or replace the housing fairly reasonably. They are pretty brittle and I think were originally made of angel wing dust or something. ;)

    Mine broke when I took it out while redoing my interior. These guys fixed mine up..Palo Alto Speedometer: Repair, Restoration, and Sales of Automobile Gauges No connection and others may chime in with other places too.
     
  8. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,389
    Frederick, Maryland
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    Brian Brown
    Someone replaced the original Bosch voltage regulator on the alternator with that piece of aftermarket crap that caused all of your problems. I would make sure that they installed an OEM Bosch voltage regulator, as they are much higher quality that the aftermarket replacement part.
     
  9. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
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    Tim
    #109 Archer911, Nov 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Jdbuddya-Palo Alto did a stellar job on a friend's 1967 911. Those guys are the best. I was able to do a better repair job on the plastic housing than the idiots before me. Several applications of epoxy and then shaping with a Dremel tool abrasive wheel did the trick.
    I believe the plastic that the body of the instrument is made of has gotten brittle with age and even deformed slightly. That said I will revisit this issue when I get the rest of the issues sorted out.

    Motob-was it the voltage regulator chip that's marked "Malasia" the giveaway? I was also surprised by how small the diodes were on the board. I haven't seen a Bosch regulator for a 308 but know that the one on my 87 911 is much heftier. As soon as the car is running I'll see what the guys installed on mine.
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  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    #110 johnk..., Nov 1, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
    I would not worry too much about what it says on the parts. A Bosch regulator may have parts for anywhere internally. And more to the point, I just replace the ignition module in my 355 with as genuine Bosch part stamped Made in China. Sure enough, Bosch has a big manufacturing plant in China.

    If your worried about electronic components may in Asia you better ditch you phone, TV, stereo, computer, .....


    Oh, and that regulator made in Malaysia is an STMicroelectronics part. One of the biggest, quality semi conductor manufactures in the world, head quartered in Switzerland.
     
  11. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
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    Tim
    johnk... assuming a 308 haas a good voltage regulator what could be the conditions that occur in a car to cause it to fail? Thanks...
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    No question but the name on the part gets to call the shots on quality. Generic aftermarket Bosch regulators are more often trash then not. Bosch name branded parts are far better in the experience of the people I know in this business.
     
  13. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    What would cause a failure? Age, heat cycles, excessive current draw, ..........

    And while people may feel the failure was because of an STMicro part, we can make two statements here: 1) Either the STMicro part was original, and failed. Or 2) It was a replacement for an OEM part which previously failed. Now, the question is, if this is a replacement part why did it fail and why did the original part previously fail? In other words is this failure a symptom of a more serious problem? Perhaps something to do with all those wires you removed. Whatever they connected to could have been the problem and this present failure could just have been the untimely result of the part being previously over stressed, and it finally let go.
     
  14. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
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    #114 Archer911, Nov 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The photo is of the connector and black wire that went to the cigar/cigarette lighter. The insulation on the black wire melted all the way up to the harness connector under the center console. It is bare in one section and melted to adjacent wires in the harness.

    I placed an order with Ricambi today and asked about the lighter. Theirs was an immediate response that the lighter and wiring is an ongoing issue with the 308 and other models. Basically the wire gauge is insufficient for the current draw resulting overheating and collateral damage occur. I mention this because other 308 owners may have a similar condition in their vehicle—an electrical failure waiting to happen...

    All instruments are back on line in the car with the exception of the burned out clock—its place on the console is now occupied by a VDO voltmeter wired to an accessory position on the fuse block and happily indicating system voltage.

    The only thing to sort is why the directionals, emergency flashers, some side marker lights, and instrument lights do not work. (relay, flasher switch?)

    p.s. in my years of rebuilding vintage tube guitar amplifiers I have found (and it is in fact a community consensus) that components like capacitors made in the U.S., France, and Germany are far superior to Asian varieties. But the application of sound production is totally different from that of voltage regulation so...)
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  15. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    I doubt just using the V1 in the lighter caused that but who knows. I wired in a separate plug for my V1 coming off the fuse panel. The plug tucked up under the dash and you almost couldn't see it.

    Looks like you have some more chasing to do. As for the directionals not working the hazard switch is a likely place to start.
     
  16. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
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    Tim
    Nah, the V1 wouldn't pull that kind of current. It probably happened when someone used the lighter at some point, but the bare wire in the console may have been a factor.
    BTW Valentine fixed the V1 for FREE, not even a shipping charge!

    New switch ordered from Ricambi and will test bulbs to see if any blew under high voltage. I had replaced all bulbs a few weeks prior to the incident.
     
  17. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
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    Tim
    12 bulbs blown from the run-away voltage regulator fiasco—3 exploded like grenades, one was cracked and discolored, the other 8 just burned out. These were all new 3 weeks ago. I expect instrument and some warning lights may be out as well.

    Of note is that all newer bulbs (Sylvania) are of a slightly higher wattage than factory original/spec.Individually this may not matter but collectively it may be a different story as an additional drain on the system. I cannot find 8 or 16 amp fuses for new fuse blocks—lesser values substituted (not what I wanted to do).

    I want to reduce the loads on the alternator and wiring system in the car. Lower consumption bulbs (LEDs—which may prove to be problematic because the system looks for a certain resistance) are a potential option. Loads such as headlights and radiator fans may be another place to save power by installing more efficient units. Wondering if any of you have addressed this.

    Finally the $150 hazard switch that many of us seem to have a problem with could be replaced by a simpler switch connected to a relay. The switch would still have the vintage Ferrari look but be a single pole type and not as susceptible to failure as a more complex component is.
     
  18. dflett

    dflett Formula 3
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    I have replaced almost all my lamps with LEDs to reduce the current through the old wiring. For the indicators, I changed to a solid state repeater compatible with LEDs. I also put in additional relays the the headlights to reduce the current going through the stalk. I also replaced the hazard switch with a regular Lucas single pole switch and (I think) two relays to provide the required functionality.
     
  19. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
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    Tim
    This is pretty cool. The reduction of current running through the wiring and reduction of load on the alternator must be significant. I haven't done the numbers yet but just hitting the brakes with conventional bulbs pulls 100 watts. With the Sylvania LEDs it's down to 20 watts.

    Solid state repeater? Not familiar with that...
     
  20. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
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    Tim
    Correction. The LEDs for the brake lights only consume .5 watts not 5 watts. Hard to believe but great for the car.
     
  21. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
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    I believe by repeater, they are referring to the turn signal flasher/solenoid/relay. Solid states always seemed to last longer in our hd applications (we preferred them in trucking and plowing applications, esp. where trailer towing was common)
     
  22. dflett

    dflett Formula 3
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    Jun 24, 2005
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    Incorrect terminology... blame it on senility :)

    I checked and the unit is labelled 'Electronic LED Flasher'. A photo of the one I'm using here: LED Rear Turn Indicators ? 308 Restoration
     
  23. Archer911

    Archer911 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2016
    907
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    Tim
    dflett - thanks for the clarification. I bought one of those LED flashers, which delivered today, on Amazon for next to nothing. Will test it in the car in the next couple of days.
     
  24. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    And are probably more visible too!!
     
  25. 412monzaindy

    412monzaindy Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
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    PBI
    Do you know what the operating voltage range of leds are. I would curious to the life expectancy if they operated at 12V and then at 14v.
     

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