I received an PM inquiry about the sheet steel panels ("trays") between frame tubes and left/right chassis "outrigger" supports seen in my photo on post #975, so in case some one else might wonder about same thing, I decided to reply "openly". Those sheet steel "trays" are exact replications of OEM items found on (most ?) U.S. spec examples, perhaps even incorporated to many or most (?) "later" production cars, regardless of their intended delivery destination. They were designed & made to support "extra" insulation (asbestos matting) between the "glass-fibre" (tub) floor and exhaust mufflers to alleviate excess cabin temperatures and prevent potential fire hazard of "glass-fibre" and interior under carpet insulations. Original ones were made of very thin (0.75mm/22GA) sheet material and on this particular car (as probably on most ?) had pretty much rotted away over the decades of exposure to heat and road-use elements on bottom side and tendencies to trap humidity/moisture on their top side. Being a bit OCD and attempting to preserve appearance of originality, I even welded my re-creations at exact same spots as originals and tried my darnest to create identical (read: questionable, at best) O.E.M.-type (wire feed) welds while ensuring adequate penetration (Although, those welds can't be seen without removal of the "glass-fibre" tub/floors) :-0. As for the insulation they support and being that "asbestos" matting is no longer readily available, I found something at least as good, if not better (And no, not DynoMat) and having installed and used before for same and similar applications, it seem to be noticeably effective.
That's interesting Timo. I have seen it before on USA spec. cars with their different exhaust system, but not on RHD cars. I will do some digging to see if it can be narrowed down.
I just wanted to add (a disclaimer) to my earlier post, specifically to portions of it quoted below: Based on my (limited) personal observations and research, I believe...
Here are some from LeMans 1973. Francisco Mir took delivery of a new car (16367) at LM. At first the scrutineers didn't want it to run as they thought the paint job was too confusing. L. Chinetti talked them out of that mind-set. The car made it about half-way through the race before a clutch disc exploded. The team shared a Renault garage with several other racers for a few days. One pic shows how even half a race dirties up a car. I apologize if I've already posted these. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
These are from the FCA meet in SoCal, 2012. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Great images, thank you! Also like the red paint on the blood trough of that black 365 GTB/4 coupe to...
??? Perhaps you mean "Blu Scuro", which over 95% of it is still same material sprayed at Scagliettis back in 1972 ? Red, I've been told, was added around 1975 by request of the current owner. Here's one of my favorite "gathering" shots with aforementioned "Blu Scuro" example in the mix. (I apologize if I've posted this before). Image Unavailable, Please Login
Pic #2 shows in the back the 166 MM Barchetta Touring #0014 M which Luigi Chinetti and Phil Hill drove in the Cinguantenaire (50 year Celebration) at Le Mans June 1973. Marcel Massini
I'm sorry, and probably unique (?), but I find the competition Daytonas fugly. Already a large car they made it larger with God awful flares that looked like they were made in 5 minutes by a blind apprentice. It really looks like a road car that has been hurried bodged into a race car, instead of properly designed with competition aspirations ... the start of the supercar maybe, ie. very fast road cars that are unweildy on a race track. I remember reading in Nick Mason's excellent book "Into the Red" about his 250GTO and comp Daytona and how the GTO was only just slower and did it so much easier, everything working in harmony. Again only one was designed to be a race car ... Pete
I don't believe it is " only just slower" , group 4 are running at 480 bhp and unless you have a 4 liter GTO I don't think it is close. OK the LM was close on acceleration, at the start, but on the straight, no challenge.the Daytona with the torque goes on and on,.and Nick has also a group4! Can someone check Le Mans timing for GTO and Group4 in period? Now for beauty, it is a beast ,,,so not everyone has a taste for one, agreed!
A beautiful race car is a car that wins, and the Daytona Competizione was getting class wins at major races even 5 years after the production had ended. The aero kit looks crude but probably it was something high end for early 70s standards. A modern 488 GTE also looks crude to me, but it works!! About Nick Mason, well, he's definitely not a pro driver. He should try to get a class win and 2nd overall at 24 hours of Daytona 1979 with a GTO to really get the diffetence between it and a Daytona Comp.
You might find a driver whose pro career covered the GTO and Comp Daytona era who would be able to weigh in. Nick started club racing in the UK in 1973. In 1979 Nick and his co-drivers came 2nd in class and won the Index of Performance in his first of 5 go's at Le Mans. He's been racing for 43 years now. Nick bought his GTO in 1978. Who could possibly have as much seat time vintage racing one as he does? In vintage racing there can't be many drivers on earth who have more combined experience racing a real 250 GTO and a Group 4 Comp Daytona.
I know that Mason has a serious background in vintage racing, but his remaks about a GTO being just "a bit" slower than a Daytona Competizione must be out of context. There is a difference of almost 10 years (and a VERY important 10 years) and 1,5 liters of displacement between them. Just the quality of the tyres is miles away. The difference must be more than just "a bit". Maybe somebody has some lap times to prove if I´m wrong.
IIRC the comment was made by Mark Hales who wrote the track comments in the book. In other articles I've read by him, Hales is not a fan of the transaxle layout in the Daytona or indeed in the 275 and even the 550/575. No idea if that influences this comment or lap time
I enjoyed bringing & presenting both, the bare metal and "Blu Scuro" 365 GTB/4s. While a lot of work to roll & set up the former on "the field", along with constant "keeping-the-eye-on-sky" due to potential rain (which did presented itself on few occasions), my reward came with latter in the organized driving tour through the mountains the following day. Interestingly, while I've lived & worked almost 30 years about an hour away from Mt. San Jacinto area, I've never discovered the great driving experiences to be enjoyed with Highways 243 and 74 up-or-down that area until that day. Thanks, FCA ! Since then, it's been one of my favorite destinations for Sunday "vintage" drives and I enjoy it at least once a month or so, at times along with some great hiking.
I think this will be my last post in this thread: 11001, I think. Rick Cole auction, 1986. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
He did quote lap times, and Mark Hales co wrote the book and gave driving impressions. I do have that book but it is packed away somewhere. The difference is the GTO is balanced and light weight. Pete
I hope not Ed. you have some of the best photos. Well if it is your last photo in this thread, you are finishing with a special car. Many thanks for posting all the photos you have posted in the passed.
Monterey 21 August 1987 it is. Sold there at Rick Cole's auction for US$ 455'000 to Switzerland. 11001 is basically a 275 GTB/4 with a 4-cam engine and a Daytona prototype bodywork. The second prototype for the 365 GTB/4 Daytona (the first one was Chassis #10287, the third one was chassis #11795), strictly a styling prototype as the car was apparently built on a standard 275 GTB/4 chassis. Therefore, its official designation was a "275 GTB/4". Body style similar to production 365 GTB/4 except for the nose, which is similar to 275 GTB/4 but with flatter headlights. Had a three-spoke wooden Nardi steering wheel (without slots cut into the spokes). Inside rear view mirror was mounted on the driver's door. Had velocity stacks and a spare air cleaner. Had a radio with an 8-track tape player that was installed in a Daytona style console with Daytona Switches. Marcel Massini Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login