The BORA

+1 on the futility of rebuilding them.

Somewhere in the last two years in one of the Bora threads someone from Scandinavia listed some substitutes he adapted. I couldn't run them down here in the USA though. But those were sensibly and easily serviced as well.

 

I believe.
A marvel though that there would be actual wear, given very infrequent usage iterations. I take it that the underlying design is faulty. What actually causes the leakage, eg re the headlight rams?

Maurice does rebuild the switches? Any such NOS around?

How problematic is the tubing itself? O-rings? Other?

Agreed that use of the aux valve in engine compartment needs attention and improvement.

Will advise re my progress with Maurice.
Again thanks.

 

The seals on the piston shaft eventually fail and the way these were manufactured it's not terribly feasible to take them apart and then reassemble them. They injected liquid nylon into interlock groves in the end cap and on the outside of the cylinder.

They should have had screw on caps at least for the headlight and foot pedal cylinders. The seat cylinder has less clearance room.

 

Maurice would problem start ump again if he thought he could get fifty of the updated and easily services rams he designed sold. He has to make them in batches of 50 and the carry cost of the inventory was just too prohibitive. If enough people step up I think he could be persuaded to run a new batch but If I was him, I wouldn't do it unless I had them pre sold to a level that the remaining ones were worthwhile to put in inventory. The time has come for the Bora community to step up and to make sure that these types of parts have a new source. Eventually, every cylinder will fail and that means at least 1400 cylinders will have to be replaced or serviced. I'd rather have a new cylinder that can be rebuilt rather than the old cylinder just service with the possibility of having to spend a fortune getting it rebuilt again. Servicing one of Maurice's cylinder is cheap, just a bunch of "O" rings and the average person could do it themselves to a specialist could do it for $100. Just my take on a problem that isn't going to get any better.

 

Maurice's rebuildable rams are a great asset to us. What were the costs of the complete conversion to his rams, switches and valve?

For comparison - When my Bora was at Dave Burnham's, I sent all my LHM switches and rams to Will's Imports in Salt Lake City and had them rebuilt for $675. They now have 4 years, 4,000 miles in the Bora. The only failure is a recent slight drip developing from the pedal adjust ram, so I have a decision to make.

Dave's shop rebuilt the accumulators and main pump back in 2012. I don't have a break out cost of that, but no failures to date.

I'd estimate my total was below $1,000 and I'm excluding brake caliper/piston work.

I wonder how this compares with Maurice's rams?
- Art

 

Hi Art,

How did they handle the end caps for the rebuild?

 

Hi Bob,

The rams all came back looking the same, but I don't rightly know how Will handles the end caps. I recall he gave a brief description of his process over the phone. Unfortunately, it is now 4 years later and I just don't remember the details. I have reason to contact him so I'll ask when I get him on the phone.

FYI - you missed a nice show in Saratoga yesterday - Hemmings Sports & Exotics. The weather cleared in the AM, a surprisingly big turn out in British cars, connected with some really nice people, heard some great stories from Eric King, Peter Perry Jr., Karl and Jeff Greenfield, et al. ...and my Bora took home 1st Place in the Favorite Italian Car Category...

BTW - seeing your Espada is still on my 'To Do' list.
Cheers,
- Art

 

Sorry. Can't remember exactly off hand.
This was a couple of years ago.
Plus, his prices may have changed.
Best bet: Drop him an email, he will respond very quickly.

Regards.

 

Maurice seems still a good resource, but apparently out of stock as to his own versios of rams. Ask him directly for a quote for what you need.

Will Jamison of SLC seems to have changed contact coordinates... please advise if found, all particulars.

Would appreciate up to minute capabilities and willingness of Burnham, Will, Maurice, others similar. I will pursue same also and report as found.

Best regards

 

Regarding hydraulics,
I enjoyed lunch with Dave Burnham and his crew last week and I brought up the subject of sources for rebuilding Citroen parts in the Maserati Bora, Khamsin, and Merak.. here is our list.

Please add information of you know of any.

1.) Dave's shop rebuilds the compressor and accumulators. That's it. At least for now...
1a.) The Khamsin power steering racks are Citroen units, same as an SM. Dave has rebuilt a couple. He would also suggest SM World in CA.

2.) Will's Imports did the switches, distribution blocks and rams. There was much talk of the mysteries of the rams, how impossible they are to rebuild, but Will did them nonetheless. Mine have not leaked. BUT it seems Will himself has disappeared. Dave Burnham did get some parts rebuilt as late as March this year. I called when we started this particular topic and his phone number is no longer in service.

3.) Maurice in New Zealand is mentioned above. There is online information that he rebuilds all the Bosch stuff, just like Will. Switches, distribution blocks, rams, etc etc. I have emailed him an inquiry as to what he currently services.

4.) I just spoke with Kerry and Jeff at MIE. They supply everything; switches, blocks, rams, compressor, accumulator. Stuart is their purchaser and might know Will's status. (Can you tell I've got a thing for Will's?) Stuart is on vacation, I'll call him next week to find out of he knows of Will's Imports status.

5.) Jacques at Maserati Source uses various places to source replacements. He doesn't stock the parts. He mentioned there is a rebuild source in the Netherlands, and the regulator can be sent to SM World for rebuilding.

Cheers,
- Art

 

Update on Maurice LaPorte in NZ;

I just had a detailed email exchange with him...

He is rebuilding all Bosch hydraulic components; switches, distribution blocks, rams (seat, headlight doors and pedal distance). He render the rams "owner rebuildable" with threaded caps.

He does not do accumulators or compressors. There are multiple sources for those elsewhere. He currently owns Bora chassis 754, originally a US delivered car.

Cheers,
- Art

 

Thanks Art.

Bob S.

 

Thanks for update and summary. I did have a phone conversation with Maurice some weeks back and some email trying to pin down actual 'quote'. Enjoyable to talk to, personable. Seems to understand the issues. Said he was out of stock as to the headlight rams that have the unscrewable ends, mostly... and wishing for investor help to put together minimum order to machinist shop.

Then I had some personal interruption for a time. Still interested, but would not wish to risk sending MY parts overseas for rebuild, wishing now to get FORMAL Quote to buy new or as-new replacement parts sent to me, subject to satisfactory substitution-fit. And function. Ask everything re his prices to do just that. Ask exactly how much money needed to invest to partner up or whatever re building minimum order for inventory, if he's out.

PS.. Think I recall he said he formerly was instrumental in originating build of replacement kit SS Euro Bumpers and some other things, long back, but that operation went elsewhere in Asia. I might care about that for my US 4.9 1973 provided fit, finish, etc all proper. Currently enjoying front-bumper delete option... but needing some .5 inch screen and euro sized marker-signal amber lights.

Interesting guy. Early 70's perhaps.. thinks that's old. Properly encouraged and abetted, he could be a resouce for obtainment outside constraints on some inside USA.

Hope you get somewhere with this soon, as I'm probably still in the weeds, next 6-8 weeks. Please advise. Much thanks.
Press on!

 

I too worry about sending parts overseas especially THAT far.

But perhaps I'm misremebering this ... but didn't he or someone offer completely new units as well?

 

...not actually a matter of total shipping distance, of course...

About a year back, or so... given my dotage... headlines re FedEx truck fire, entire 18-wheeler somehow burnt up on the highway departing NE part of LA basin gave great pause.

Huge number of packages -- poooof !!

But we have our conditioning and expectations. We still expect that, given a large sample of events, the average will prevail. Of course, IF the exception this time is YOU then it's 100%. Average suddenly becomes irrelevant.

STILL preferring to receive replaceable new parts, and not send irreplaceable unique old parts. Curmudgeonly troglodyte Lud.

Nice if this group can keep pursuing resolution to title issue here, benefitting all. IF Maurice offers to make new batch of 50 (or 100?) Headlight rams, screw-style as he did prior, with a capital partner or several, then who'd be in, and on what terms of profit split or whatever?

It's risk vs reward, at a distance, with a foreign partner. Stranger things have happened.
Pray harder.

 

I would provide some capital if there were several others who would step up.

 

The cylinders I remember being offered were all SS. Not a rework of your old ones.

Anyone else remember those on eBay?

 

Maurice did and still does make a US-to-Euro front and rear bumper/grille kit he considers extremely high quality. Then another supplier made similar kits at a lower price and orders more or less dried up for his kits.

So - Maurice still makes his kits (didn't ask if he has them in stock). He shared via email photos of his kit's assemblies showing the quality and fit, and solid crating for shipment. He owns a Bora to confirm his kit dimensions and construction*, his son owns a Merak, etc, etc. ... *then again by now how many Bora's share exactly the same front dimensions after restorations, repairs, etc... ?

Cheers,
- Art

 

If anyone is interested in a Euro Bora muffler and tips, please contact me off line or through my website email.

Looking to start making correct Euro rear bumpers and mounting brackets all in 304 stainless.

Just Sayin!

Ciao,
George

 

The cylinders were not stainless steel but nickel plated. They were of high quality but his subcontractor wanted a minimum order of fifty before he would do the machining for Maurice. Maurice didn't want to tie up that much capital in inventory and there wasn't a steady demand for them so he would know that he would get his money back if he did make the big plunge. It would require substantial orders with partial payment for him to generate enough money to do a new round of the cylinders. He made all three types, headlight, pedal assembly and seat. The beauty of his cylinders was that they could easily be rebuilt. The only thing lacking was a seal rebuild kit with the necessary "o" rings and wiper seal being offered by Maurice but I suspect that could be address if he had enough sales volume and some backers to help cover the inventory costs. In the meantime, MIE is making replacement cylinders but they don't look quite the same as Maurice's units but I am sure they function just perfectly. Unfortunately, they are making on one type of the cylinders right now. I guess if they get enough requests, they will add the other two to inventory but they face the same problem Maurice does, stocking the inventory and justifying tying up capital on low turnover items.

 

Did anybody notice a high number of bora for sale? if you check hemmings (lots of them), bring a trailer and classic car market it is significant for a car that was made at less than 600 units. Also price seems to vary greatly

 

I finally got my original Bora engine running on the dyno. Unfortunately, I'm off to London tonight but when I get back in about two weeks, I will post the results and list the changes made to the engine so that everyone can see what was achieved. All in all, I was quite happy with the results and I feel that they are realistic for the engine with the equipment that was added or changed. Hold tight and I will get the information to everyone when I return.

 

Probably nervous, newish owners are expecting further drops after the election sometime next year. AKA speculators who put "some" money into the cars after buying them and don't want to lose any money.

There were none for sale for quite a while during the ascent.

It's always been a rare car as well as a great car but as you know that doesn't always translate. It's never been a great investment while I've owned one. More of a Duncan yoyo that's also great at sleeping ... LOL

I think it's undervalued by a factor of at least 3 compared to similar Ferrari's which is a stretch to call any of them similar. No vintage mid engine Lamborghini is similar to this car nor as good but most people find those far more exciting and the Miura at least IS more beautiful.

A knowledgeable eye can look at those examples and see why the prices might vary so.

There are so few authentically fully restored Boras, even the ones that win at certain big shows. Almost all of them are partial restorations and areas like the engine compartment were originally finished in a piss poor fashion because Maserati didn't care and it was covered most of the time. So a nice paint job, interior refresh (sometimes even that is partial) and servicing of the hydraulics along with a fresh clutch might make a decent driver but it doesn't make for a top flight collectors car. I've seen Ferraris like that as well though with better engine compartments because that's such a showpiece on something like a Daytona. Vintage Ferraris have been much better treated over the last 30 years than Maseratis and Lamborghinis have. That's changed in the last 10 years for some models but it's still not equivalent. My opinion is that Boras still fall into the less than category. At least I haven't very many in person in the USA that have had much more lavished on them that their resale value. Other people on here disagree.

Show me dah money!

 

Very exciting Elliot and we'll all be excited to hear all about it. It's been a very long term project hasn't it.

 

As someone that owns a Miura, Boxer, and other cars of the era, I can tell you that the build quality of the Bora is far superior to any of its contemporaries. The technology was also well ahead of its time. The engine perhaps not as exciting / raw, but still a formidable car. They are incredibly undervalued and I do agree that the lack of truly restored examples have held back their values. Incredibly well styled cars inside and out. A great car for the dollars even today.

Pictures don't do them proper justice IMO.