Thanks for your honesty. I feel very similar. + and - in specific areas but no doubt overall a great car.
Unfortunately you do not get the required online code to quit the brake disc check lights with any aftermarket solution. Guess at least when selling the car you take a five digit hit.
Okay ... and still, an all plastic backing to match the all plastic grille. Not aluminum. Did you fiddle with the lower splitter plastic piece to check the weight?
In this thread you made a half dozen posts trying to counter my post. You claimed to be unbiased, defending a car on order, that you had never driven. And yet ... in your review of this week, you admit to being someone who likes the new. Proving my point of months ago: "We have one life, and while I would never advocate being wasteful, I prefer to drive a brand new car" New cars don't exist, they're a sales myth, but I digress. Look you've had one on order. That's a bias. Buying a car doesn't add weight to your opinion. And not buying the car doesn't take away from others. We see what we see, and enjoy what we enjoy. There is no need to bash an opinion as if it was a fact, it's just an opinion. I said so early and often here. Truth is you had not at this point (in September) driven it, so how could you know you loved the Lusso? And you now have driven it, and clearly much prefer it per your review. You can't see my point? They are seemingly similar yet very different cars, I don't expect anyone to be neutral on their preference between the two.
Does having one on order automatically mean any opinion is biased? If you think yes, then so be it. It's a word, and rather unimportant in the grand scheme of things. What's important is that our context or 'bias' as you call it, is clear, so that people who read others' views can make their own mind up. I don't feel 'biased' but I couldn't disagree with you if you suggest that I don't get to decide whether I come across as biased or not. That seems fair. My context is that I have financially committed to both cars (the FF much more so than the GTC4 at the moment). I have never denied it and just because I think a certain way doesn't make it right. If I can help others with an opinion about a car they may have an interest in then I will. I often trawl forums trying to find interesting opinions on cars that I own or aspire to own so it seems reasonable to me to offer the same to others. They may find that my judgement criteria is different to theirs but that doesn't make me wrong, it means they have to work out how closely my thoughts would mirror their own. What would seem to me unreasonable, would be to try and persuade others to my point of view for reasons other than simply offering information for them to decide on. I always try and leave room for other views and try to avoid dogmatic statements unless provoked. The fact is, this is ALL subjective, to a lesser or greater degree. To more directly answer your point about how I could love a car I have not driven, that's rather obvious I would have thought. I have never driven a Dino, 250 GTO, Miura, Countach, DB5, 250 Lusso, BB, Daytona etc. and I love all those. I love their looks, I love the stories about how they were designed, I love what they represent. Similarly, I love the way the Lusso looks, both inside and out, I love the technology they have included in it (TDF gets RWS and now, so does the Lusso), I love that it still has a n/a V12, I love what journalists have said about it - i know what they said about other cars I owned or have driven and can use their comments as a good reference for what a car might feel like even before I drove it myself. In the case of the GTC4, what I found was a version of what they had already indicated. I certainly didn't think "wow, this car is not what I expected at all..." I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you, but I will be (hopefully as politely) honest as I can be; you seem to be pursuing an unnaturally negative agenda against this car. Your views do seem to be outside the range of negative to positive views that seem reasonable to me, but I would strongly defend your right to them. I just don't agree. You seem to mind that but surely that shouldn't be a problem?
1. I have no agenda against the car and the fact that you think so is a projection. You like new cars more, you said so, and you have one on order. I see the car as 1 car out of thousands in the world for sale. There's no motive and no gain to be critical. It helps not the FFs value, or me personally. On the contrary, I wish the car was better quality, more elegantly designed, less busy, and I wish I wanted one. I don't and wouldn't trade for one even for my car at it's current price. 2. Your review was hardly free of your bias or attempts to define the reality, nice try. You referenced points I have made and that you argued against BEFORE YOU DROVE IT. To love a car before driving it, is irrational and points to bias. 3. I said in my review and many times over I have ONE OPINION ONLY. However, when people argue against the basis of that opinion, I defend it. That's not the same as trying to convince anyone to agree. I don't give a rats. You posted 6 times against my review. You obviously have skin in the game. I have posted once to your review and I see no reason to continue there.
And yet, it's a safe bet that anyone who had followed your relentless criticism of the car from the moment it was released, and long before you'd even been in the same room as it, could easily have predicted exactly how your review was going to read. I doubt a single reader was in the least bit surprised by your conclusions. I'm sure most reader familiar with your position up to that point probably said a quiet "Oh really..." to themselves at your claim to have gotten "past the biases you brought with you". More often than not on this forum it's owners of a previous generation of a car that are the harshest critics of its replacement. That's completely understandable - we become emotionally invested in these cars. And that's exactly as it should be, it's half the fun.
I agree as well. I think we all see it as one person's view, with all the biases that comes with it. We all defend that right. The fun and camaraderie goes away when that person's view is relentlessly and annoyingly pushed on us as objective. To the point where it appears to me it becomes bullying in some cases.
Brian...you like to throw around psychobabble terms, but do you appreciate the irony in all the replies you generate? You clearly state opinions strongly, to the point they come across as "objective declarations" (supported by your artistic credentials of course), to make those opinions relevant. Yet...virtually all here view your opinions as irrelevant because they are so biased and tainted, and thus not worthy of any gravitas. And that my man...is not...projection...just cold-objective observation. Disclosure: don't have an FF, don't want an FF; don't have a gtc4lusso, don't want a gtc4lusso.
Projection is a real thing. You just did it. When you see someone doing something and you imagine what they are doing based on what you would do in their shoes, vs. seeing it for real, that's a projection. In other words, you are not an owner of any of these cars, and likely do not work in aesthetics or the arts in a daily capacity ... so you have no ability to hear any opinion on it's merits and debate it as an idea, without PROJECTING all the personal baggage you imagine on to it. Many people appreciate my posts and if they didn't I don't care. It's not a contest. I only mentioned credential when that was someone's way of knocking the opinion. I didn't start there, not does it matter one bit. Creating quality and debating aesthetics is a life for some of us. Not you, clearly. My question is ... what value is your post to the conversation?
Italiafan et al, I share your pain. This is not a psychology or even a behavioral economics forum. I may not have a background in art or design, but my BS meter entered the red zone today after reading the same useless, grandiose, vindictive dribble for the umpteenth time. Maybe, the "Ignore" feature will restore some peace and harmony to our FChat experience.
Moderators, How long are you going to let this go on? How obnoxious, personal and disruptive does this person have to be before appropriate action is taken? This constant behavior detracts from the positive spirit of the community here.
No way! You can actually ignore someone on FChat? That's best news yet. How does it work? Instructions please...
On Tapatalk, click on the user's name and the on the 3 horizontal dots at the upper right hand corner to access the option to Ignore / Block.
I've run this past a senior professional in the behavioural psychology department of our local establishment (I race against him on the water) to get a proper perspective on the irritation on the year. His opinion would indicate a very troubled insecure disposition coupled with a fair degree of paranoia .........tolerance my friends..............maybe not
thanks to Bundy for his advice on blocking certain Users, just did It.... Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Indeed and I did same....I don't think it's an option that people use very often unless forced to do so as we have been....
Really? Brian may be over assertive, often less than courteous and his review less than credible given that it reads like little more than a retread of his previously unfounded criticism, but it's just his opinion. Are you guys really so sensitive that you need to block someone for that? And, of course, there's always a chance he might be right. Diverse opinion make this a better place, even if it's sometimes rough around the edges. It would be quite boring around here if it was just one big love-in.
Lesia, maybe I'm too old and traditional, but there is still a role for etiquette and dignity in our world - even on an FChat. Maybe, especially on FChat? I'm hardly looking for "one big love-in", just a place to enjoy comraderie and learn about our beautiful (and hard-earned) machines without feeling like I'm stuck in the middle of our vile Presidential campaign or an OTT reality TV show. Life is too short to babysit others' insecurities and fragile egos.
Oh, I'm with you on that (though I'm sure some on FChat familiar with my input would raise an eyebrow at me saying that. Lol!). And Brian is suspiciously insistent and I can see how that would rub some up the wrong way. He seems a little angry over this.
