575 manual watch, Europe

I will not be bidding on this one but would be interested to know if it actually runs as it was clearly missing a battery when the catalogue photos were taken... See post #200

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144961577-post200.html

I'm still working on a plan to attend the viewing day on the 24th and am thinking about registering to bid on a Giulia but can't quite imagine how they intend to cope with the requests to view cars, extant paperwork etc. on the day.

 

To the point of negligence IMO. Would you be happy to pay these cowboys to sell your car?

 

No.

Damn that was an easy answer!

 

I have no reason to be critical of RM Sotheby's at this point but do wonder how they got the gig.

Presumably, the Guardia di Finanza would have considered a number of options as to how they should best liquidate the seized assets and at the end of the day, it must have been its decision to invite an internationally recognised auction house to run the show in the hope that it would generate more interest from outside of Italy.

We don't know much if anything about the circumstances under which these assets were stored but one might assume that 'the collection' was actually managed with some diligence. It would certainly be a shame if some of the supporting documentation gets lost along the way as it is possible that some lots will not attract the bids that they might have otherwise generated if they are simply sold on an 'as seen' basis but there is not much that the auctioneer can do here as the onus is on the vendor to present the lots in the best possible light.

 

Thanks for that Darius.

Weird approach. By apporaching it this way they will leave a ton of money on the side of the road.
Clearly the Italian Finance department wants to see money asap.

This is the most delicate one:

Are all cars in free EU circulation?

Yes.

I think they mean by circulation free to move inside the EU....but no guarantuee that they can circulate on the roads of all EU member states....

 

I will be there all four days. I have also registered as a bidder, but I don't think I will end up bringing anything home. My wife would not be happy.

I was at the Aalholm auction in Denmark (and many others) and it was crazy, especially the more special cars. I think that's also why RM got the job, if they can get people competing in paying way too much for hopeless basket cases, then that will benefit the banks and Italian tax officials.

In case anyone wants to meet for a glass of prosecco or beer just PM me before the auction. I was even thinking of driving there (from Frankfurt) but decided to end the driving season and it is so much easier to just fly there. I will be staying in the NH Fiera Milano to be able to check out the lots and be at the auction any time I feel like it and sleep whenever that feels necessary.

Cheers,

Pekka T.
Fin.

 

Belgium ;o)

In the UK you have some pretty tasty metal. Some 2 years ago I was looking at a Lola T70 continuation...registered in the UK, number plates, V5 of whatever you call it; MOT the works...no way you could register it in Belgium for the road. But wait isn't this the EU. Isn't UK part of Europe (still is). So what happens if the British owner drives his Lola on UK plates to Belgium. Will he get shot on sight?
I can do the same story for some of the Caterhams...

So imagine if I win the Pantera and find that it does not have a COC....

I am surprised by the superficial approach of RM to these matters.

 

With the Pantera (lot 284), the first problem is that appears to offered with a 'bill of sale' only e.g. no italian libretto.

However, the lot listing does show the car on BS A52020 [Brescia] plates and the tipo and chassis number is visible so it may be possible to make some simple inquiries and obtain a replacement libretto.

The winner should budget for the removal fee and some storage costs until that is all resolved but I would be prepared to bet a Peroni that it is an original Italian market specification/supplied car and can be registered in most sensible EU and possibly other markets without too much additional hassle.

Don't talk to me about the Swiss though! I once imported a brand new Discovery and although it came with a CoC, the muppets still got a tape measure out to check that it wasn't a bespoke SWB version!

Either way, this Pantera is too old for a CoC as these documents were not in their current form until the early 1990's and CoC's may only offer a fast track route for imports of cars under 10 years old in any event.

P.S. It would be nice to assume that the Italian Government would effectively guarantee clear title to each lot here but it is certainly the case in certain other countries that a car that can be shown to have been stolen at one point can ultimately be returned to its rightful owner as a thief can never pass clear title...

 

That is the default Barchetta alcantara binnacle/tunnel.

I've never seen another 575M with an alcantara binnacle, but I don't know if this one is a re-trim or a bespoke factory effort.

 

You are right about the COC but I can not translate gelijkvormigheidsattest in English ;o)

They have muppets in Switzerland too?

 

Called RM today.

The way I understand it is that RM has already bought and paid all the lots to the Itaiian government.

Taking a chance or making a killing.

 

Ha ha!

Without wishing to challenge what Vereeken says he has been told by someone at RMS it would appear that another person told Themaven that they were given 6 months to organise the sale from start to finish. The latter sounds more plausible to me but it does not escape my attention that I'm typing this on a day in history when we are seeing things happening elsewhere in the world that were until yesterday considered by many to be 'inconceivable' so I suppose either, or perhaps both scenario(s) have some truth in them.

However, my view is that if RMS actually owned the inventory, the last they they would have chosen to do would have been to pump it all out in one mega-event but perhaps we will learn more in due course.

P.S. RM Sotheby's is part owned by Sotheby's which is listed in New York [NYSE:BID] so there may well be some official narrative published at some stage that shines more light on this exceptional event; but as large as it is, it may only send a small ripple though the balance sheet of the parent entity.

 

One thing to bear in mind is that in terms of the Italian Governments's needs this is a tiny drop in the ocean - maybe twenty million euros

For that reason I doubt they care how it is sold and may well have let RMS buy it all - after all in the art world it is a frequent occurrence that the vendor is given a guarantee for a collection so that would be just one step further (possibly offering them a claw-back above that figure) - and it would have been well within Sothebys financial capabilities to write that big a check

 

If that is the case the Italian Government better get off his lazy bum and start collecting them documents....

 

All booked.

If anyone is attending we can have a coffee thursday/friday.

Pm me.

Michel

 

Buying cars like these is always a gamble. The only protection you have is to buy at the right price.

I agree that Due Dilligence will be very restricted. I also believe that by the way RM is running this show they will not doing themselves any favors.

Here is what I think is happening. I see about 10 cars that are important to the wider classic car scene. I am guessing that RM is ligning up bidders with a keen intrest and they are most definately given early access to these ars so they can be checked and double checked.
The other cars? RM can give a damn about them. Whatever they bring is OK.

I had a chat yesterday with ASI; basically the Italian Organization for historic vehicles. They where not even aware that the auction was taking place. This can mean a lot of things ofcourse, but it sure surprised me.

 

Your analysis is spot on. RM will just bank the commission and move on to the next earner (auctioneering, for many, is money for old rope - you only have to look at the inaccuracy / poor quality of descriptive material put out by some allegedly reputable auction houses to see that). The court appointed trustee seems to be acting negligently to me: his duty, surely, is to get the best price for the assets and make every reasonable effort to do so, which he does not seem to be doing.

Good luck, guys - are you going to let on what lots interest you?