Hypothetical 599 Manual Conversion

The electronics are simple. Buy two Motronic 7.1.1 or 7.3.2 ECUs for manual transmissions and have the chip in the instrument panel reset for manual transmission instead of F1. FAI can do that. Disconnect the TCU and that is about it.

 

I wonder how much the conversion costs? 50kish?

 

That's the loaded question.

For 360 (and probably F430) it is not that much: between 5 - 10K, depending on how resourceful you are.

For 612 and 599, there are definitely more parts involved. As I stated earlier, I have created a list, showing differences in parts between MT and F1 612; but, cannot get anyone to tell me which ones are needed for sure and which ones aren't. Once I have that, then you can get a good estimate in cost.

 

Adam- Telling which ones you need should not be that difficult. The big expense in parts is the two manual Motronic ECUs. The big labor item is removing or sliding back the transaxle, as if replacing the clutch, to replace the seals on the throw-out bearing and remove the clutch position sensor. So there is one thing you do not need, a throw-out bearing, just the seals. Of course, once you have gone to the trouble of removing or sliding back the transaxle, might as well replace clutch, throw-out bearing, and pilot bearing while you are in there. No clutch position sensor required, obviously.

 

Manual and F1 ecu are the same base unit, just different software , a simple upgrade reflash from F1 to manual would do, and release a few ponies at the same time.

 

Im pretty handy but this is one project I would rather have someone that knows these cars tackle. I just would never feel comfortable cutting into a 599.

 

Paul- Oh, baloney. You and the other amateurs keep saying you are just going to reflash the Motronic ECUs. Not going to happen. The tuners go in and reflash a very small portion of the fuel injection and ignition maps in the Motronic ECUs. Nobody reflashes the entire ECU. Just because the hardware is the same, does not mean the software is simple. These are not relatively simple TCUs, which are easy to reflash.

 

I spent a long time creating a real nice spreadsheet that shows all the possible parts, after going through every one of the diagrams. It has all relevant info, and even a check box to verify if the part is actually needed or can work on either F1 or MT.

I'm concerned that one (or some) of those required parts may not be available - that would be bad.

Tell you what, Taz. I'll PM you, so I can send you that XLS and maybe you can take a look at it. If I know for sure what parts are needed, I can check on their availability & price, and then report back.

I just noticed that you do not accept PMs - feel free to PM me and I'll send it to you.

Thanks.

 

The lack of new or late model stick shift cars has certainly created more interest in the conversion but as anyone in this business can tell you interest wanes a great deal when it comes time to write checks. There is no question there is enough interest to use up available parts but it will be a big hurdle in my opinion to get someone to actually go to the expense of a parts production program. Do not ever expect Ferrari to be a participant.

 

For 575, 612 and 599, somewhere between 20K and 30K depending on the model and parts prices/availability.

 

Will - I had sent you a PM earlier; please look or it.

Thanks.

Adam

 

Adam- You can send it to [email protected].

 

Where as another amateur like yourself spouts theoretical nonsense as well, you just claim swap the ecu from a manual into an F1 car and its good to go! rubbish, have you actually tried it?

The base Bosch ecu leaves them devoid of any data what so ever, nothing is hard wired into it, it is all downloaded afterwards whether it be for a 575 a 430 or an Audi, they all use the same virgin ecu.

An ecu expert in the 430 section is already working on transferring manual data into a F1 ecu, he is actually doing it, not just reading parts diagrams from Ricambi and workshop manuals like you do and then trying to establish a profile as a self professed expert on the modern front engine v12 Ferrari.

 

Ummm... Taz isn't exactly an "amateur". The rest of us call him a "Pro". I for one truly value his input and to dismiss him on a whim is stoopit.

 

I knew very little about the modern v12s until I recently bought a 575 motor for a project and 612 updates to go on it.

I came into this section to gather advice, and get up to speed.

It quickly became clear that he is the classic forum know all, who actually has little practical experience but spouts other peoples info, or sourced direct from books/manuals and the net.

The following saying springs to mind:-

In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man becomes king.

I planned to just keep quiet, but he chose to try put me down further up this thread.

I will be slayed I have no doubt by the fan club, but there will also be the silent majority nodding there heads in agreement when they read this.

 

Folks - let's keep things friendly here. Not reason to beat on each other.

For those who want to see an actual play-by-play of a successful conversion of F1 to Manual for a 360, here is the link (Remove The Dash "-" Between "Ferrari" & "Life" before using the URL):

http://www.ferrari-life.com/forums/modern-v8s-360-f430/19123-360-f1-conversion-6spd.html

 

Paul- Yup, just started maintaining Ferraris in 1975 when I bought my Dino in Clovis, New Mexico. No practical experience at all except for the Dino, Daytona, and 308, on all of which I did all the maintenance. If you want to convert an F1 to a 3 pedal, ask someone who has done it. A professional, not like you spouting off hearsay. There are two companies who have converted them. Nobody said all you had to do was change the Motronic DMEs. That is just part of it. Oh, and kiss a fat lady's rear end, while you are at it.

 

+1...let's just keep this friendly and discuss what needs to be done to do the conversion.

 

A little late for that don't you think? Friendly is not a word I would have ever used for this place. My first post here I got BS from some knowallogist telling me I didn't know f**k all and in 21k posts it has never changed.

 

Shoot me an e-mail at [email protected] , let me know what photo's you think would be most useful , I will make sure we capture them through the process!

I am looking for a CNC option , while we have a pedal out, I was thinking to have it scanned and a replacement made, so we know that it can be done. The first shop I asked to give an estimate quoted me $6500+ PER pedal... which is a bit hard to swallow, when you consider used ones run less than $100.00 ( when you can find them )

So, if you have an option in mind, shoot me an e-mail, I am happy to reach out to them and get an estimate!

p.s. I have been told it takes a 5 angle machine to do the work, 3 angle won't do < shrug >

Do you know of anyone who will actually clone an ECU as you describe, again wanting to put together options if we were to start doing these more often.

Open to suggestions , feel free to e-mail

I can share that parts alone are in excess of $43,000 ( All OEM and new ) and there are more parts coming.

Do you know of someone that can simply re-flash as you describe above? Shoot me a PM or e-mail, we are looking for future options.

If you want to send me your list, I may be able to help with what is available and what is no longer available... I can tell you for sure, clutch pedals are not.. < wink >

^^^^ This... I have been discussing the conversion idea on a 599 for well over a year, it's taken this long to get the right car , at the right price, and the right client that was willing to not just pay , but allow the TIME that will be required to perform the 1st conversion ( That I know of ) as the unknowns are always lurking around the corner!

S

 

Would you like to tell the forum how many 550/575/599/612 engines you have actually stripped and rebuilt which you profess to know everything about?

I pulled a 575 one down to a short motor ready to rebuild just two weeks ago.

Oh and as an ecu expert when was the last time you physically held one of these Bosch ecu you have all the diagnostic knowledge of? my guess never. I have two in my hands right now.

How about the difference between the Bosch stickers on a manual and F1 spec 612 engine ecu......I will save you some googling time, there are none, the Bosch ID on both is exactly the same, its only the Ferrari applied parts label that identifies the difference between the two.

How about a link to a build thread on your latest project?

Here is mine, its an easy enough task fitting an F40 carbon kevlar body onto a 355 chassis and making a space to fit a 575 engine uprated to 612 spec into it

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/special-projects-concept-cars/430339-f40-bodied-f355.html

I could go on..........

In fact I just fired up my factory workshop manual, anyone want to know anything?

So next time you want to unilaterally try to belittle someone on here make sure they don't have the ability to call you out instead.
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Paul- Wowee. Would you like to see my 612 WSM or my 599 GTO WSM? I think I told you where to find a 575M WSM. Tech data is easy to come by if you know the right folks. Most of us share them with each other. I remember sharing my 365 GT4 BB WSM with Angelo Wallace in the good old days so he could translate it. He gave me a copy of his Daytona WSM translation in exchange.

If you manage to reflash a 575M or 612 Motronic ECU from F1 to 3 pedal, let me know and I will be glad to eat crow. Seems like the pros do not know how to do it.

 

Isn't that exactly what Taz is saying? It's not about what you are holding in your hand, or what bar-code it has on it - it's about the software (not the hardware) - what exactly do you know about that? It would be great if you could add actually to this thread's knowledge rather than just putting down someone who clearly already does.

 

I own a manufacturing company and do have a 5-axis machine (they are axis, not angles )

Don't count on a 3 D scan.... IMHO, doing something right requires proper reverse engineering.

Making one off stuff is really expensive. Just keep that in mind
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Terry, you and Brian Crall know what kind of nitwits come here after paying for a brake job on their 911 know all there is to know about late model Ferraris. ****, I've been here now long enough to see it. Don't let them drag you down...