Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

How about you just watch the video at the time point mentioned instead of arguing. The 918 tyres say 'MICHELIN' in huge letters on the sidewalls.

http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/sigmafour1/media/Cup2s_zps0cmv6dey.png.html

 

But some people fail to realise that the longer route around Torre VIP in Grand Tour was blocked off, making the lap 3s shorter. It was this track:

Algarve International Circuit (Short) lap times - FastestLaps.com

Not this one:

Algarve International Circuit (Portimao) lap times - FastestLaps.com

There's a reason d'Ambrosio achieved the same F1 career points total as a reindeer on sleeping pills. So all considered, CH probably was the better driver slightly and certainly for the McLaren.

 

There is a guy named Brian Scalabrine who played in the NBA for a number of years. He didn't look very athletic and barely played. A lot of jokes were thrown around about why exactly is he in the NBA. A few years ago he played a number of top street ball players one on one. None of them scored a point. I'm sure the video can be found somewhere. Point is, a professional athlete is beyond reproach from any novice at their given sport. Any non professional claiming a professional athlete is bad at their craft is out of their mind. The worst player in the NBA would destroy a great street ball player just as a mediocre F1 driver will annihilate the best driver at a local track.

 

Prove it.

That Grand Tour didn't run normal version of track.


Chris Harris is good driver but he isn't on d'Ambrosio level if he was he wouldn't be car journalist.

 

You didn't seriously think d'Ambrosio was >2s faster than Harris did you? From the LaF hot lap at 1:02.13, big block with cones either side blocking long route around Torre VIP. Thank God someone spotted this in the most heavily edited hot laps ever.

Proof_zps7tzsydlj.png Photo by sigmafour1 | Photobucket
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Aut%C3%B3dromo_de_Algarve.svg/1103px-Aut%C3%B3dromo_de_Algarve.svg.png

Reviewing the 'hot laps', the snippets aren't even from the same lap. Someone needs to get GT to post the actual hot laps from the cockpit perspective with telemetry. Because these heavily edited 60s farces are not hotlaps IMHO.

 

Anybody has the translation of what D'Ambrosio actually said commenting on the cars? Tnx

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOw8aC78LoU

 

Thanks man!

 

No problem! I think we forget how good and supremely skilled any professional athlete, even the ones at the bottom of the ladder, are compared to an enthusiast. But as I've noted in the 488 GTB forum, it's also a testament that Chris Harris' skill is more than capable especially with his many decently performing professional stints these past few years.

 

Harris is a good driver there is no doubt but he's not on the level of an F1 pro. Maybe like a AA baseball player to a MLB player would be a good comparison.

 

To suggest CH (who is a great driver btw) is on a level close to D'Ambrosio is rather laughable. Edited VT for television is standard practice, despite this the lap times quoted will be what they achieved. What does it benefit them to lie? Whichever order they all come in is a decent story so their program is more significant and better if they play it straight. The fact they stressed the tyres being equal suggested they were keen to be 'responsible' for those who care about the cars' relative times, even if all GT really care about is telling the story.

 

I don't know if this has been discussed but why isn't La Ferrari the fastest (ignoring the small standing start advantage of 4wd) it has a huge power to weight advantage over the other 2. Assuming same or similar tyres. Is the chassis / aero package really that much worse?

 

I think like most Ferraris the car is a couple hundred pounds heavier than advertised.

 

it has been weighted to 1600kg

 

I think Harris is a great driver but never thought he's on a level with d'Ambrosio. What I do think is that for what these cars are technically capable of, Harris' skill should be enough to take them to the limit. It's the cars that are holding back d'Ambrosio as he can drive faster but is held back by the limitations of what are still fundamentally road cars.

Also, Ferrari wouldn't have let Harris do a timed test lap unless he could perform comparable to Ferrari test driver, Raffaele Simone. It's when the driver's skill is no longer adequate enough to take a car at 9 or 10/10ths that it becomes an issue and these two drivers are capable of taking these cars to their limit.

 

Good points.

 

you might have a point about harris's driving skill being overhyped.
but if the video provided below is what you were talking about...clearly you don't know anything about basketball. i am not a big fan of street ball and would never agree to the style/aesthetic of the way those guys play..but those aren't top street ball players by a long shot. these nobody did scored on scalabrine even though they didnt win any match. and for your info there were a couple street ball players turning professional cases in the nba. one of the more notable one was rafer alston who at one pt was the starting pg of the rockets team. he would have no problem scoring on white mamba at all

 

My point was more to call out the lunacy of people on internet chat rooms saying professional drivers are bad drivers or unqualified to set timed laps.

 

If you need more proof. The speeds at speed checkpoint 2 (peak speed on that straight going down to Torre VIP) were:

Grand Tour
LaF - 194.9kph
918 - 183.0kph
P1 - 188.3kph (slower peak speed on straight?)

Chris Harris
LaF - 141mph (227kph)
918 - 139mph (224kph)
P1 - 144mph (232kph)

 

Tyres. Cup 2 vs Corsa.



Also, suggesting that a good club racer, such as Harris, compares to an F1 pro is pure fantasy.



A good driver can always run better times. The cars are not the limiting factor.

 

Well we don't really know who was the fastest driver, because we don't know what layout Grand Tour ran until we see the full unedited hot laps from the cockpit with telemetry, rather than snippets of corners from different laps, on different days in a random order. There are many different laps that can be ran at Portimao as you can see.
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The problem people have is that here there are 4 hot laps they can see in a pure, unedited format from the cockpit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3YPTkBRaOk&t=335s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh48FhOAb50

Whereas here there is a heavily edited sequence of cornering snippets from different days, with people talking in between condensed into 60s. This makes it difficult to determine whether the full layout was ran and hence the validity of the times in general. People will always believe what they can see more than what they can't and there's no way of undoing that raw human instinct.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01J93ZV7A/refdvm_uk_xs_oth_e_en_all_021/ref=br_imp/251-2444755-9055267?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=top-0&pf_rd_r=GJB2MH8NG8BQRS21ZQ6P&pf_rd_t=8101&pf_rd_p=1149086167&pf_rd_i=desktop_landing_prime_member

 

You're thinking way too much into this. At the end of the day these are cars. In a couple of years there will be better ones.

 

The TGT test is very interesting. It simply shows that all 3 cars whilst designed to completely different engineering philosophies are almost identical in performance. Who would have predicted that?

My heart would pick the Ferrari. My head would pick the Porsche. What a comparative bargain that car is. Third place goes to the P1 this time around...

 

True but when Chris Harris ran his laps, people didn't believe the first P1 lap was on Corsas, so they asked to see the Trofeo R lap and he showed it to them. So you can't blame people for asking for the same here. After all, what if Clarkson came back next week, and said, "oops, we misread a scrap of paper, P1 actually ran 1:53.5"? People would then want to see the actual laps right?

I'm also an enthusiast and I want to see the actual laps because I like watching hot laps.