Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Err, no, read the link. Pagani said they used Trofeos but they actually used Zonda R Pirelli slicks with a Corsa tread pattern cut into them. The tread didn't even match Trofeos. They couldn't even tell a smart lie.

Did The Pagani Huayra Cheat To Set Its Record Lap Time On Top Gear? (UPDATED: Pagani Responds)

Now McLaren told everyone when they fitted Trofeo Rs, so there was no secrecy or dishonesty and they're a genuine road tyre and a genuine option.

The LaF would kick the 918's backside at Portimao on Cup 2s. The 918's great on little tight tracks but put it on GP tracks like Spa and Monza against the P1 and LaF on Cup 2s and it will get destroyed, especially after HL mode runs dry.

The only way the 918 beats the P1 and LaF is on Cup 2s vs Corsas and with HL mode vs continuous mode. You clearly don't read links either. The Pagani was on cut Pirelli slicks and was still bettered by a 675LT. Look at the rest of the Huayra's times and you actually think it beat a BAC Mono 2.3, an ACR MkV, a LaF and an Atom 500 on the TG track using Trofeos?

Blyton Park Circuit lap times - FastestLaps.com

Blyton Park Circuit lap times
Rank Vehicle Driver Time PS / KG
1. Ariel Atom 3.5R Marino Franchitti 0:58.90 355 / 550
2. Radical RXC Turbo Marino Franchitti 1:00.40 460 / -
3. BAC MONO unknown 1:01.40 284 / 540
4. Porsche 911 GT2 RS (997) Jethro Bovington 1:01.80 620 / 1370
5. Porsche 911 GT3 (991) Marino Franchitti 1:01.90 476 / 1425
6. Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) Marino Franchitti 1:02.10 600 / 1720
7. Caterham Seven 620R unknown 1:02.10 315 / 500
8. SLS AMG Black Series Jethro Bovington 1:02.30 631 / 1550
9. Pagani Huayra Tiff Needell 1:02.50 730 / 1350

Thermal Club Raceway lap times - FastestLaps.com

Thermal Club Raceway lap times
Rank Vehicle Driver Time PS / KG
1. Porsche 918 Spyder James Sofronas 1:17.18 887 / 1640
2. Ferrari LaFerrari James Sofronas 1:18.46 963 / 1585
3. McLaren P1 James Sofronas 1:18.82 916 / 1490
4. Dodge Viper ACR (Mk V) James Sofronas 1:21.86 654 / 1548
5. Honda NSX (Mk II) Graham Rahal 1:21.90 581 / 1767
6. Dodge Viper ACR (Mk V) Alec Udell 1:21.92 654 / 1548
7. McLaren 675LT Alec Udell 1:22.62 675 / 1230
8. Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) Alec Udell 1:22.64 500 / 1420
9. Veyron 16.4 Super Sport James Sofronas 1:23.01 1199 / 1888
10. SRT Viper TA Alex Gurney 1:23.40 649 / 1520
11. Aventador LP750-4 SV Alec Udell 1:23.56 750 / 1525
12. Pagani Huayra James Sofronas 1:23.76 730 / 1350

Anglesey National lap times - FastestLaps.com

Anglesey National lap times
Rank Vehicle Driver Time PS / KG
1. Ferrari 458 Italia unknown 0:59.20 570 / 1485
2. McLaren MP4-12C unknown 0:59.30 600 / 1434
3. Gumpert Apollo unknown 0:59.40 650 / 1100
4. Porsche 911 GT3 RS unknown 0:59.70 450 / 1400
5. Pagani Huayra unknown 0:59.70 730 / 1350
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*puffs cigarette and sighs* Im not going to be able count any of those tests. Reasons 1: We don't know what tires they were set on; reasons 2: the pagani ones don't have credible references; reasons 3: Im not counting any of Salmons tests since his pagani was most likely not up to optimal conditions, nor did he remove the wheel vent covers on neither the 3RS nor the Viper, so those times could be better.

Back to the pagani. Did you also read update 3? *And there you have it. Pagani said they used the Corsa tires since that is what they wanted to push to the media. The P-Zero "Trofeo" used on the Huayra is a modified version of the slick used on the Zonda R. That explains the nomenclature, branding, tread pattern, and wear indicators.



Pagani told me the tires are street legal, but you don't want to use them in heavy rain. That means they're super close to the edge of legality.*

Then theres also a statement from Venturi: *Per Luca Venturi, Pagani's press officer, both were used for the Top Gear test:

1. We used both during the shooting at TopGear Test track. We reported Pirelli Pzero Corsa on our press release because we want, for communication reasons, to push them on the media.



2. All Pirelli tyres for the Huayra have been developed from the Zonda R (keep in mind both cars the Huayra and the Zonda R share basically the same suspension with the Zonda R being the development test platform for suspension, brakes and tyres of the Huayra). Pagani released statements about this in the past.*

Unless you're talking about the journo who claimed they were handcut slicks taken from the zonda R and transferred over to the Huayra, then pagani's statement backs that up by saying that they already basically share the same underpinnings, so its not hard to see why they used them. Once again, if those are the same tires customers can get, then theres nothing wrong with what they did.

 

So they claimed they were Trofeos and then when challenged on tread pattern they said Corsas? What about the size discrepancy and the indicator dots? They came up with some story about all their tyres basically being developed from Zonda R slicks anyway, so using cut-slicks was therefore legit? Bwahahahahaha! 2 legit to quit. And no, that tyre does not meet EU tyre regulations for labelling, so it couldn't possibly be street legal.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXGUWB4LqxM
bac mono is king!

 

Yep, those Kumhos are very sticky. The driver commented that they felt like slicks once up to temperature. An ACR can beat a 918 on similar tyres, so when you add them to a genuinely fast car, you get something pretty amazing.

 

Ferrari and McLaren both had every opportunity to use Pilot SC2 when they developed their cars but specifically chose the Pirelli Corsa tires, even though many people around here claim the Michelins are much superior. Must have been a reason for it.

When the P1 was introduced, there was no Trofeo option for the car until it got destroyed by the 918 in early tests (read the first head to head in Top Gear magazine - no time was ever provided (strangely, lol), but it was very clear from the write up that the Porsche was quicker). McLaren, realizing the lack of mechanical grip couldn't be made up by the aero grip advantage scrambled to come up with a quick solution and used the barely road legal Trofeo's that did not even fit properly to provide better track times.

 

For Mclaren that reason is that they're contractually obliged to use Pirelli due to F1 relationships. Ferrari on the other hand do use Cup 2s on the 488. And it could also be said that Chevrolet used Trofeo Rs on the Z28 but opted for bespoke Cup 2s on the Z06, why? Then you have the ACR with its bespoke V720s that have a thin UTQG 20 outer layer. So considering this fact about outer layers with different UTQG on bespoke tyres, there's literally no telling how sticky bespoke Cup 2s are.

Made up nonsense. The only difference is that the Trofeo R wasn't developed specially for the P1, it is just an off-the-shelf option. The size has to be smaller due to the nature of the tyre when cornering.

 

look up press articles from when the P1 was launched, they mentioned that the pirelli's wew made exclusively for the P1 but they don't mention an optional tyre

 

Not all press releases mention all tyres. When the 488 was coming out, many press releases only mentioned the Cup 2, not the PZero or MPSS. Aside from this, a manufacturer is at liberty to add an option tyre any time they choose anyway. So I'm not sure what your argument is.

 

The Corsa is better than the equivalent Michelin Supersport (also offered in lesser Ferraris), but the Cup 2 is another thing altogether. Ferrari is in bed with Pirelli (F1) and as they didn't want a tyre as extreme as the Tropheo R, they had to go with Corsa for their halo car which they assossiate with F1 technology transfer. Same applies to McLaren I believe. Porsche on the other hand works with Michelin in the WEC anyway. It comes down to business deals really. That said, you can get off the shelf Cups for both the LF and the P1.

 

Maybe this reason is called "Formula1"?

 

Lol. So let me get this straight. I am building my flagship car that comes out only every decade and because I have a racing relationship with a certain tire company, I must use their crappy tire on my halo car?

More likely, the car's overall performance isn't as dominant as advertised so it is time to deflect and blame a third party (tire company). This is classic politics! These manufacturers were quite happy with the corsas when the cars were introduced. Never a word of discontent until the head to head tests began to appear.

 

I don't think i ever recall ferrari complaining about the corsas. I do know though, that during the Harris test, they wouldn't do it unless everyone was on stock or equal tires. They had no problem with the 918 running cup2's, they just didn't want the P1 to run trofeos during the initial test. The fact fezza didn't have any problems with the 918 on cups, probably says a lot about their confidence in the laf's chassis and car as a whole.

 

Ferrari LaFerrari & Porsche 918 Spyder: The Real World Test

 

Yes, exactly. Basically, they'd all be using the Viper Kumhos or something similar if given a free hand.

Tyres are always the biggest factor in times. And when the P1 beat the 918 on Trofeos, people deflected the blame to the tyres then, so they started this debate.

 

Oddly enough Trofeo R is available in LaF size too.

Page 17
http://www.pirelli.com/mediaObject/pirellityre/ww/en/catalogue/motorsport/pzero_trofeo/PZeroTrofeoR_2014_ENG/original/PZeroTrofeoR_2014_ENG.pdf

 

Yep. Pirelli own the trademark for the P1 and McLaren license the rights from Pirelli. They couldn't ship the car with Michelin's.

The trofeo for the P1 wasn't tested until McLaren went to the ring. My car is one of the later cars and came with the trofeos as a stock option.

I can see why McLaren would prefer the pzeros because until the trofeos warm up (which takes quite some time), they are as slick as ice and quite difficult to use with all the torque the P1 has. Even my LT came with trofeos and its not nearly as loose as the P1 with the same tires.

 

The biggest problem for the P1 on Corsas is the traction, the difference with Trofeos is massive and you can see that comparing the Corsa and Trofeo laps in Harris's video. All that turbo torque and Corsas just aren't a good mix.

 

Taking the engineering brilliance of these machines and reducing them to a frivolous discussion about tires is like claiming Michael Jordan is the best basketball player ever because he wore better shoes or that Babe Ruth is the best baseball player because he swung a bigger bat. It's that silly.

 

Bizzarely they are not listed on the UK website...

 

So are cup2's. Another member posted a video of one with them; or you may have also heard of the car: BuckBlue.

 

Agreed! But just for fun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhHONpmlxPc

Anyway, I think all 3 are brilliant, I will simply go with James May's opinion that the LF is the most lovely of these cars and thats the one if I had to pick.

 

Well there is one reason to have the Ferrari, brought to you in association with the letter V and the number 12.

 

tyres are actually quite a big factor as Engineering Explained shows in this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2S6MJt0998

 

Yes if there's a contract.. don't forget the Enzo, the only ferrari with the very poor Bridgestone Scuderia (Formula1 partner), when the 60 CS had the Pzero Corsa
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