Avro RJ-85 Crash with soccer team

RJ-85 was re-registered 3 times with this airline, and apparently sat in storage from CitiJet for several years before they acquired it.
(BA-146)

There was no fire (fuel exhausted?)

They have the 'black boxes'.

These seem to have a decent safety record... the fatals all seem to be pilot error, not equipment issues.

I've heard there were some issues with the 4 high bypass engines.

I flew on this type years ago with United DEN/SBA several times... seemed like a long flight for an RJ.

 

When they were still called BAe 146's, I flew one on United Express from Islip to Dulles to Daytona Beach. Nice little airplane, though we had to abort our first takeoff run at Dulles due to what turned out to be a faulty warning light. (Darn British electrics!)

 

That's because cruise speed is M.70

Not at home to reference the flight manuals and brochures, but the BAe equivalent (a -200) had a max range and payload of only 1550 miles including 45 minute holding at 5k feet and 150 mile diversion. The RJ range IIRC was extended marginally, but not the 1800nm + that this flight encountered. And Cityjet had no need for range extending tanks (that would, at best get it closer to 2000nm).

 

Story link: Colombia Plane Crash: What We Know About the Avro RJ85 - NBC News

Jedi

 

Crash: LAMIA Bolivia RJ85 near Medellin on Nov 28th 2016, electrical problems, impact with terrain

One photo shows the fan of one of the engines and it looks like it was not turning at the time of impact. Fuel starvation is a possible cause just like the Avianca crash near JFK in the 70's IIRC.

 

Very sad. Reminds me of a couple of other crashes involving sports team. Most recent the KHL team in Russia, http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/world/plane-crash-kills-khl-team-in-hockey-s-darkest-day-1.1007333

I'm no pro but lack of fire would also indicate low/no fuel would it not?

Im going to keep up to speed with updates on this incident.

 

I believe this is the one youre thinking of in 1990.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52

 

The latest article suggests the pilot dumped fuel before impact to avoid a fire/explosion.

Brazilian football players killed in Colombia: Why did plane crash?

I regularly fly on RJ-85s so am keen to understand the cause of this accident.

 

Does the 146 (RJ85) have a fuel jettison system? I don't know the plane at all, but it seems pretty small for one.

 

Very very tragic. All soccer fans here in Brazil, regardless of their team, are saddened because of this tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

Some "interesting" information I found in other aviation forum:

 

I dont think that it does either but I am no expert. Also several reports state that Avro RJ85 does not have one.

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2016/11/30/61470/

 

Pilot reportedly asked for priority and didn't declare an emergency, but had a aircraft ahead of him that had declared an emergency..

Later he declared a fuel emergency, and was given priority but ran out of fuel 4 min short of the runway...

That is what I am hearing, from an knowledgeable source...

 

I remember the Avianca crash well as I was on a DFW-JFK flight that same evening, scheduled to arrive about 8 pm. After holding for an hour or so near the airport, the pilot advised that JFK was 'closed' and we diverted to Dulles where we sat on the tarmac for 3+ hrs. A number of passengers disembarked and traveled to NYC via Amtrak. We finally departed Dulles and arrived JFK about 3 am. I didn't learn about the Avianca crash until mid-morning.

 

Funny you mention that I saw this today at AV Herald, Incident: VivaColombia A320 near Medellin on Nov 28th 2016, suspected fuel leak .

They also added a very similar statement to this incident at AV Herald to the Avro file.

 

It does not.

 

Yes, actually 4 of them... they emptied the tanks.

 

I heard the ATC recording. There's a mention of electrical problems near the end of it. That's the point they lost the engines. In the 747 classic, loss of all generators and loss of all engines looks almost identical, especially if you're descending at idle power.

 

On that plane the 2 generators are on #1 and #4.

Once they're offline...

I think I read somewhere you can't do an air re-start on those engines either.

Don't know if it has a RAT.

 

You certainly can't do an air start without fuel!

 

Here is the actual ATC recording with english transcript: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ab5x_C-CFg

 

Young copilot's first flight with the airline, overall lack of situational awareness between the two pilots. Flight was already close to max range when they got there and were put in the holding pattern. Pilot should have declared emergency fuel when he reached the placard number. Flame-out took out the generators and probably no fuel to run the APU either, if she had one. Very sad.

 

There were three pilots onboard. The young copilot was on the jumpseat.

 

Brazilian TV showed radar data , voice recordings, documents, etc, where the aircraft was in a holding pattern (elliptical), when pilot lost fuel and generator went out, thus lost instruments, and electrical systems, then pilot brought plane down to lower altitudes but flying blind at 9:00 PM approximately till plane clipped a mountain top, left wing stayed there and rest of plane crashed a few hundred feet below in a valley, with no fire. Clearly, pilot (and owner of this one aircraft airline co) at fault for saying while still in Bolivia "we will be fine....we have enough fuel to fly this...don't worry) to a Bolivian airport worker whom questioned him about flight time being equal to range,,,,,, also Bolivian authorities at fault for allowing the flight plan to be authorized. sad story.

 

Exactly right. They ran the plane out of gas, because they didn't tell the controler to shove it and do the approach.

Art

 

Don- Had not seen that they had 3 pilots, thanks.