Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Confined by platform garbage. Did that stop the GT3 RS getting wider tyres? Nope. Larger wheel arches would be all it requires. Hardly a massive engineering feat.

The P1 lapped Hockenheim Short faster than the 918, up went the battery discharge rate. So now it can do 1 lap faster on some tracks.

Rubbish both tyres are 20% stickier than the Cup 2s on regular GT3s.

A guided tour of the 2015 Porsche 911 GT3 RS ? by the boss by CAR Magazine

There is nobody except Porsche die hards who think Corsas are as fast as Cup 2s. Nobody.

 

So why didn't Sport Auto release lap times from Hockenheim Short for this test? The one after which the 918 suddenly became a lot faster.

Porsche 918 Spyder gegen McLaren P1: 887 und 916 PS für den Legendenstatus - AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT

Oh and why haven't The Grand Tour released unedited hot laps to Amazon subscribers online?

 

First time back here in a year because I just watched the Grand Tour. What gets me is if the P1 is so much better A - why didn't it win the GT around Estoril challenge and B - Why haven't McLaren ever announced the sub 9 minute Nurburgring lap time. Seems BS and the only realistic outcome is that they are all so evenly matched it doesn't matter except for the ideal pick which is all academic unless you have the $$$ which most of us don't. Ultimately like Trump fans, newspeak augurs strongly in many McLaren fans whom pick and choose a bit of truth from here, a story from there and a fact from over yonder to construct some "Its faster than concorde" fantasy. Yep sure the tires were originally fitted, yep sure on a certain track its faster, yep it feels faster or whatever you want in that fantasy, its yours after all. Again all of this was well covered by Jezza and the boys who noted that this is a game that can never be won because they are all so closely matched. I would have a 918 but fully respect anyone that would have a LaF or P1, just wish they would cut the BS.

 

When did Top Gear ever release unedited laps of any car, ever. Why would they? You're the ONLY one who thinks they should. You're Jill Stein asking for a recount grasping for straws where there are none. It's over my man. Just move on with your life and quit posting on this thread.

 

My understanding is that it was AC, at Barca on the 1st bend, and the Jurno that can drive btw, was to embarrassed to come down for breakfast......Lol

 

Personally, I think the P1 has embarrassingly lost this battle because McLaren erroneously and pompously proclaimed - before the three hypercars were even officially released - that the P1 would easily be the fastest street legal car ever produced. McLaren failed miserably at this claim as the 918 has won a majority of the head-to-head matchups between the hypercars...in spite of the McL fanboys claiming that the 918 was going to be the pig of the three hypercars. IMHO, the 918 has been the shining star of the 3 original hypercars...LaF is a close second and the one I would most like to own!

 

I was referring to the top gear track, dunsfold.

 

So why hasn't Grand Tour released the Portimao laps yet? Why hasn't Sport Auto released the Hockenheim Short lap times yet?

 

The laps of the Eboladrome and Dunsfold are far less edited. 10s of flashing images and drifting does not equal evidence of a 2 minute hot lap, and if they were in fact from the hot lap, then it's obvious why the P1 was slower - the driver drifted it around two bends. If they want to be taken seriously in the modern world of car testing, they should release the full unedited hot laps just like Chris Harris did. Folks like you rely on Salomondrin's test and Grand Tour instead of honest tests that lay out all the facts. Salomondrin and Grand Tour are the Hillary Clinton voting machines of car testing.

 

Interesting,
When do you think they will get round to offering an extended warranty on P1, or its Batts...? 1st cars are over 3 years old now.

Also never quite understood the advantages of placing a large Kg item like the batt pack so high up.......Lol

 

No idea, I haven't heard anything.

And the placement of the battery is not so high up as some people like to claim. I have seen one out so I know what I'm saying here. First of all, the fuel tank on the P1 is smaller than the 12c. I have some pics around here somewhere but the battery starts about level with the center of the wheel, the mass of the battery is low with the lighter cooling system on top. Second, the size and shape of the battery cell dictates it goes there. Third, McLaren fully expected the battery to shrink in size and weight, which it has, and this new battery will weigh less than a tank of fuel so its quite all right where it is. Ideally it would be on the floor where the LaF has its battery but that would have increased the height of the driving position and reduced its cooling capability which is worse.

 

I often wonder if the P1 was designed as a HB from the outset. When taking into account not just how high the batt is from a centre of gravity point, but also from a heat soak prospective. I know a little about Lithium-ion , the last thing it needs is heat...

imho

 

Yes the enemy of L-ion is heat. Which is one reason why LaF has (had?) batt problems is there is not enough cooling on the floor, and not enough air under the car. The cooling radiator for the p1 battery is in the front of the car away from engine heat and this coolant is piped back to the battery in a closed loop system. Same for the turbo charge coolers, in a separate closed loop system. I haven't had any cooling problems and I regularly drive in 90 degree temps.

I suppose the P1 was designed as HB from the start since the battery and e-motor design is from 2010 while the cars weren't produced until late 2013.

 

Why should they? Because you want them to? Do you honestly believe they were faked? If anything they would be in favour of the P1 as Jeremy Clarkson (the show's star) prefers that car. There is no reason that I can think of for them to skew the results in favour of the 918. Remember what Clarkson said in the show: "For England!"

I can see why the result is devastating for the P1. This was the track that would most favour the P1 due to the high speed right hander (great for aero grip) and long straight (for DRS system). This was the track that would put the 918 in its place.

It did. And that place is first. Deal with it.

For those that want Lieven/Mycroft banned from FChat, I totally disagree. I find him to provide comic relief. I love to see the contortions he goes through to defend his position. Very creative. As long as he doesn't get personal and start verbal harrassment, I have no problem with him. Keeps things interesting!

It is clear from all these head to head track comparisons that the P1 has mechanical grip shortcomings that keep it from reaching its full potential. Maybe for its next hypercar, McLaren can address this.

 

Not in any case, please…

He is such an entertainment (just like Al Bundy), that I can’t imagine my glass of whiskey every evening without his final convulsions…

 

Not massive enough for Porsche to shoe horn wider rubbers in the GT3RS, but that's a still a big challenge, they barely fit and some cars have clearance issues.

But it is a problem massive enough that McLaren can't find a way to fit wider rubber on the P1

In case you haven't been following, Porsche has always been updating the software and calibration on the 918, getting faster and faster is nothing new, the capability is always there from the beginning. Not like they are fitting new e-motors to the car, or turning up the boost.

If Porsche were to do the Ring again, the car will be much faster, heck, Lieb could have gone faster in the prototype, but there is no need. But what's the point? They are already the Ring king, first car actual production car to do it under 7 mins. Just like Armstrong is the first man on the moon. No one can take that away.

BTW, a little birdie told me the P1 was over a second slower than the 918 at Dunsfold, P1's home track. No wonder McLaren banned Top Gear from releasing the time.

Who says 20%? Your imagination? LOL. 918 and GT3RS runs much wider tires than the GT3, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to works out those wider tires will be stickier. And if you had bother to talk to tire engineers, an ECO rated tire will not be as sticky as a non-ECO tire. Very different compound. And if you had bothered to talk to a Pirelli tire engineer, they would certainly think very different than your own imagination, that the Corsa is not on par with the Cup2s.

 

Just show the 3 hyper cars' design to any competent automotive engineers. First thing they would ask will be why is the battery pack on the P1 sits so high? On top of a fuel tank that would vary in weight. All of them will come to the same conclusion, the P1 is not designed as a hybrid in the first place, the platform was adapted to be an hybrid. (Well except people working for McLaren, cause they would say the weight is negligible and P1 has Race mode to lower the Cg back down)

Secondly, look at the e-motor placement. 918 and LaFerrari has the e-motor inline with the drivetrain, while the P1 has it off to the side in place of the starter motor. The later car was confined by the hard points of the 12C platform hence it cannot have a inline design. Telltale sign of a car that's not designed as a hybrid in the first place.

It is still a great performer though, basically matching the performance of the other 2 even with a compromised design. Imagine McLaren putting some real effort into designing one from the grounds up, it will be out of this world.

 

whoops, Its not that McLaren can't fit wider tires to the P1, they aren't trying to do it. Big difference. I asked if it was possible (for arguments sake) and the answer was yes, if I wanted to, and explained how we could go about it. So no its not a massive problem as you say.

If I wasn't here in the UK with loads of spare time on my hands I wouldn't even bother responding to all this BS. It seems the 918 folks are experts on all things P1 which clearly they are not.

Incidentally, many of the guys in the group are pretty experienced drivers and several have 2 or all 3 cars. Its pretty clear which one they want to drive on track and which one to take the kids to school.

 

In fairness to McLaren, they simply cannot afford to gamble with the huge costs of a bespoke design like Porsche and Ferrari could - it is a much smaller company than the other two. As you said, it is about equal in track performance to the other two, and pehaps a little less refined on the road. A great achievement.

McLaren doesn't want to be an economic basket case like Lotus.

 

Of course McLaren is gonna say it is possible, do you honestly expect they would say we can't do it?

Quite a few 918 owners also own the P1, and yes, it is a very exciting car to drive, doesn't mean it is the fastest, but it gives them the most thrill. That's the general consensus, the P1 gives the biggest 'sensation' of speed, al later noises work in harmony to make the driving experience special.

As for the 'expert' part. No, it's more like the Porsche crowd doesn't have the fanboy mentality and won't admit facts, they won't chant 'Porsche is the greatest' like how those McLaren crowd are. A bit more objective as they say.

 

That was established a while ago, the P1 was the cash cow that can finance McLaren cars. Minimal increase in cost to build over a regular 12C but maximum revenue. Which it did.

And the results are coming together, the excellent 570/540 series and then the upcoming P14.

 

I guess I don't find it as amusing as everyone else but I'll try and lighten up.

 

Because they are a humorous entertainment show and don't need to. You are way too serious my friend and need to chill out. You like one more than another, good for you but its all just three cars and it isn't like solving world hunger or stopping the war in Syria.

 

Does anybody here know more about the actual driving interface of these three cars?

If you can, can you confirm there:

• Porsche 918 is using electric motors mostly under its own computers. It has different modes for the driver to set a preference (use a lot, or try to maintain some charge) but otherwise it just does "auto".
• Porsche 918 has no way to control the wing.
• McLaren uses the electric motor mostly based on the steering wheel button and not much otherwise except when the driver floors it.
• McLaren has manual wing control in the form of a DRS button
• LaFerrari control over electric motor use is in-between P1 and 918. More automatic use than P1 and less than Porsche. Doesn't deplete battery in auto, whereas 918 can easily go all-out (and has two electric motors).
• LaFerrari also has no manual aero control.

Does that sound correct?