The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

How do you work that one out, sure trying to smuggle a genuine Ferrari into the country under the guise of a replica saves a few quid in duties

So why would he want to smuggle a replica chassis in claiming its a genuine car? makes no sense.

Then the chassis numbers simply fall off over time, Piper forgets it was 0846, builds it up as a replica and sells if to Jim for far less than its true worth!

Funny way of doing business.

 

The only way that makes sense is if he were trying to bring in something more valuable, like a non-wrecked P3 or P4, and arguing for tax purposes that it was the written off wreck of 0846.

 

Usually he is thicker.

No one has an answer for what the chassis was that Massini saw, they would rather just forget about it.

Seems funny, here is a possible lost and forgotten Ferrari Chassis and no one cares to find out what it was or where it went, Hmmm....

And just so you know, they do not really care to find out the true history of anything, they just want to win an argument. Piloti, Jeff Kennnedy, MiuraSV, Paul500. All of them will want to do nothing but win the argument. Good luck. They are not interested in learning more about the Piper series etc. It is all Burden of proof this etc. etc. etc., no one here is actually interested in finding out the real history of the Piper cars/ mystery Massini frame, they are just here for the pissing match.

Good Luck.

 

see we can agree on some things

or (and obviously this is conjecture) with chassis lists and details being available to everyone and especially with the onset of the internet and its way of making history easier to trace etc etc Piper "could" have realised he would never be able to pull of "i found #0846" especially after owning it for so long.

also dont forget JG was offered 0900 if he wanted it, and that turned into his choice of the P4 type cars Piper owned - so Jim chose the car.


This whole 1977 thing is definitely an interesting point and has relevance to David Piper and what he owns/has owned

 

Yeah, this is funny. Glickenhaus just threatens to sue when things don't go his way.

 

Vincent,
No one has done more pissing on this thread than you.
Tell us what you have done to try to find an answer to the Piper series cars that YOU raised.
Not much, I bet.
Nathan

 

Since your profile states you are an archeologist that should mean that you have expertise in research. So get off your arse and start looking beyond this thread. There is a lot more out there. There is even some information from reliable sources that will put solve some of your issues. This is if you are actually interested in truth.

 

A noted characteristic.

What is that Emperor story again?

 

More importantly. Let's say the Chassis Massini saw was not 0846. And Jim G's car is not built up from the chassis remains of 0846, that it is indeed scratch built 0003.

If hypothetically all that was true, what was the chassis Massini saw that day, and what happened to it?

Funny, how no one cares one bit to know.....?

Something had to come of it. Chopped into a swing set maybe?

Hmmmm.....

 

You have. You helped to set the tone of this thread long before I ever showed up.

Please tell us what you have done to uncover any truth about this frame? Afterall you are such an accomplished author/researcher? You must know so much about the history of these cars?

Or maybe you don't.

If you are such a knowledgable Ferrari scholar, please tell us the story of the frame that Massini saw?

 

Clearly Piper knows what it was, and where it ended up.

Which is why he is so adamant it has nothing to do with 003.

Ferrari have no claim to 0846, they scrapped it, and as they do not recycle steel then that scrap would have been given/sold to someone, that someone then could do whatever they liked with it. Which is why Ferrari have not gone after Jim even if they did think it was the real deal.

So again why would Piper sell a valuable chassis as a replica when no one else was laying claim to any ownership.

 

Nathan we aren't all on a crusade with an agenda and an axe to grind like you and Steve seem to have, and i've already clearly stated "i have no horse in this race"

Some of us simply find it an interesting subject and want to discuss/debate it
I'm one of them.

Also as someone trained to investigate, evaluate and hypothesise its also in my nature to question things - especially when I see things posted as fact when in truth they are supposition or when evidence is presented with no proof of provenance etc.

 

As he spookily lives in the same district as you all of a sudden, he could meet you in his favourite local pub as well, buy you a beer and lay out his first hand facts.

Likes to ask lots of repeated questions, but never seems to answer any though.

 

Ok, as you say Pipes knows where it ended up, so then someone that knows Piper coulda, woulda, shoulda just ask him. Several members have posted about their relationship with Pipes and this should be easy for them to verify? Problem solved and if you are right indeed we shouldn't have needed nearly 500 pages to answer it all.

 

So let me get this straight, Piper knows where the frame ended up?

So he had this frame, which from our knowledge was either a semi useful P3 or P4 frame, but instead of using it, he did who knows what with it, and just built three other frames completely from scratch instead of using an already built frame that he already had in his possession and just did whatever with that frame???

Seems like a pretty weak theory to me.

But lets say that ridiculous scenario is indeed true.

What was the frame that was seen by Massini if not 0846? It is not like there were a ton of P3 or P4 frames just laying around back in those days.....

This seems like a pretty big loose end to just write off IMO.

 

Just because he knows what happened to that chassis he has no obligation to tell anyone else that information.

I imagine he is an old school gentleman trader, and keeps his cards close to his chest and also honours the privacy of purchasers.

Its probably hanging above the fireplace in some Bond Villain esqe billionaires mountain retreat since the late 70s!

 

Please, do tell, what questions have you ever answered with your stealthy research?

Cause I can't think of one.

Just a bunch of ham fisted thick headed theories based on no real knowledge.

But do tell, would love to hear about your huge case cracker of a revelation.

 

Whenever someone is losing an argument and cannot fire back a valid thought provoking question they always seem to retreat to insults.......

 

Great theory. No wonder you have no real answers. Can you say speculation mixed with bull****....

I get why you are so adamant about meeting in a pub as your logic clearly dictates that you must always be posting at one, and have been there for hours...

 

Then you must be quite regularly be losing arguments.

 

Keep it up, your credibility just keeps sinking further into the abyss as a result.

 

Sure thing sport. Cause you and your left field theories are so highly esteemed. Hahahaha. Hahahahaha. Hahahahaha. Etc. Etc.

BTW, still waiting to hear what your case cracker contributions have been??? That goes for Piloti also... And hey, why not Jeff Kennedy also? With all that insider Ferrari guy info he likes to talk about but Hmmmm... never talks about????

Waiting... Waiting... Waiting...

 

Amuse us all, you go first and I am sure everyone will then follow up.

 

Vincent,

Yes, there are some quite revealing things that I have been told. No, they are not for public consumption. Maybe if you and Chaos decided to get serious you too would develop the connections and then find the information in places other than FerrariChat.

Jeff

 

Like you I question when I see things posted as fact when in truth they are supposition or when evidence is presented with no proof of provenance etc.
This is what happened when JG started his quest to prove that he had 0846.
He claimed that chassis damage proved he had 0846.
Hence my earlier post about the proof that chassis damage, that was claimed to identify the chassis as 0846, never existed. Again, I ask, where is the photographic evidence that links 0846 of 1966/67 with the chassis that JG has today?
It doesn't exist. So the whole basis of the claim falls down at the first stage. Naturally, other questions about dubious claims then followed.
Surely, you with your questioning nature can understand this simple logic, or does it apply to others but not to you. Cause it sure looks that way.
Nathan