Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Since you're such the P1 expert why dont you please tell us about the minimal costs to develop p1 over a 12c. How much did it cost to develop the e-motor? How much to develop the adjustable suspension? How much to develop an all CF body? How much to develop the hybrid system? How much to develop the cooling and aero systems? I'm really curious to know.

 

This has nothing to do with being an 'expert' on whatever car. If you would only take off your McLaren goggles and look at things objectively, these are really not hard to spot.


You do realize McLaren has their own wind tunnel right? It was supposed to be for the F1 team, but the F1 team has limited testing time so using it to develop the aero on the car is basically 'free'. The personal cost are fixed, they get paid whether they are working inside the tunnel or not. Moulding CF body panel is not much harder than doing carbon composite. They are ready doing it.

12C already has the hydraulic suspension system, it doesn't take much to add a few lines of code to lower the ride height.

Cooling circuit is already predetermined by the 12C platform, where all the radiators are located. It's simply to check heat level and adjust the size, the airflow going into and out of them are from the wind tunnel.

Hybrid system is not rocket science, once they determined they needed to add hybrid to the platform, they need to look where to put the battery. Taking over the back shelf above the gas tank is the cheapest and easiest way to do, just remould the back wall by a bit. Much better than swapping the battery pack with the gas tank which involves much more work.

Once they see they don't have room to put an inline e-motor, the second choice would be to offset it and the obvious location would be the start motor spot, the e-motor can do double duty as a starter motor too. Then it got interfaced with a gear set.

You have to remember the 12C platform is already developed and sort of paid for by the 12C program. Plus whatever that's coming down the line, the 650, 675 etc.

You really think all these simply fixes are expensive? You are quite naive.

A good guess might put the cost increase at 200k-300k over 12C even with all the exotic material used. At most each single P1 should be costing around 500k to McLaren.

 

This thing is really shaping up to be something of a monster.
Aston hypercar secrets revealed - motoring.com.au

 

Has any owners tried hypermiling the 918 and P1?

 

^^^No, that would be like dating a Victoria's Secret model and only going to first base even though she is begging you for more.

 

Hypermiling is reserved for folks who enjoy the smell of their own farts. Did you ever see the episode of Wheeler Dealers with the Honda CVCC and the Hypermiler? Doesn't use A/C in LA because it uses too much gas...good luck dying of heat stroke in your car to save a half an mpg.

Also, I much more enjoy owners of these cars participating in this forum. Adds some substance To the back and forth. Last few pages of discussion have been great.

 

I'm not buying this cars claims. Not its kerb weight claim (I'm thinking 2800 pounds at least) and not it's cornering G claim. Let me stress this, nobody in their right mind wants to pull 4+ G in a corner. Pro Drivers who do this are world class athletes with lightning relaxes and years of training. These 60+ YO men who plunked down their deposits on this car will be dying in it if it's capable of levels of performance AM-RB has claimed.

 

Love it, and so true!

 

I know the laps didn't happen as shown, unless he was really drifting the P1 around corners, which would make the test null and void anyway.

 

Nonsense, fitting wider tyres would be an easy job.

Make up as much garbage as you like but the speedometer doesn't lie, 4mph faster on every straight at Laguna.

Andreas Preuninger says 20% stickier, e.g. the director of Porsche GT cars. The Aston Martin Vulcan did a 2:20 lap of Spa on Cup 2s.

And I'll ask again, why didn't Sport Auto release the Hockenheim Short times?

 

No reason why they wouldn't release them online. A lap without a video basically didn't happen.

 

Hmm,

Porsche choisit les pneus MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup 2 pour le lancement de la 911 GT3 RS | Michelin

You mixing up numbers to create lie? lol

The contact patch in a GT3RS is basically 20% bigger, that's why he said the grip level in a GT3RS is about 20% more than a GT3.

He didn't say the 918 tires are 20% stickier than a regular Cup 2. Plus, 918 runs N0 spec which are ECO rated, and the GT3RS runs N1 spec which is not and stickier than ECO tires.

We confirmed that part at Portimao last month when the GT3RS can corner harder than a 918. 918 pulls 1.3 or so lateral G while the GT3RS are doing 1.5G+ through the last corner onto the main straight.

 

Just out of curiousity, why can't you run the N0 spec tires from the GT3RS on the 918?

 

Ok, the weight part might not be too entirely impossible, but the 4.5G's are in track only spec, but he's claiming the road car version too, so we'll just wait and see on that part.

But the weight is entirely possible if the sesto elements could do it a long time ago. The sesto weighted 999kg curb, but it had a massively heavy V10 and Lambo's old AWD system, so if lambo could do it with nearly a decade old tech, then the Aston being able to do it with current tech, and probably a perfectly weighted and specced out interior is not so farfetched.

If the 918 had a V8 that weighted as little as a four cylinder motor cycle engine (135kg), then having a V12 that weights as little as a six cylinder--or perhaps even a four cylinder, could cut out a massive chunk of weight. I don't think the 918 had carbon upper components like the Aston will; How much effect that'll have on it, i don't know. But I don know that it does have an aluminum block like the 918 did. They claim the whole car is F1-spec carbon, and titanium, except for the wheels which will have magnesium instead of titanium.

If the KERS system is similar or even the same one as the RB F1 car, then it should weight no more than 20 or 30kg--battery and motor system included (the mercedes one actually weights less than 20kg). So you have an engine that weights 200kg + 30kg for the KERS system, and boom! 230kg for the powertrain. So now you 770kg left for the tranny, body, suspension, brakes, liquids and perhaps crash safety (unless the body takes of that part for them itself).

This thing could potentially provide the most impressive powertrain comparison in design and leap-in-tech, to the previous-gen hypercars. Im not comparing the Merc hypercard since that one is an F1 engine and they've already gone over it slightly, but it'll still be impressive to study and compare when they release the final specs.

 

You can now run Trofeo R tires on a 918 in OEM sizes! Far stickier than any Cup 2 spec tire...

 

I know it seems like a number that shouldn't be hard to get to but believe me, it is. The Sesto had ZERO safe equipment. It didn't even have a dashboard. A road going car that has to pass US crash tests will never weigh 1000 kg and have a v12. The tiny Alfa 4c weighs nearly 2,500 pounds in U.S. Spec.

 

Hi Lieven/Mycroft. Why not go on the Grand Tour forum and ask them to provide the telemetry? The producers must keep an eye on that forum.

 

That doesn't work that way. Grip doesn't go up linearly with width because the force from the weight is distributed, reducing friction per surface. Wider tires are better, just not linearly so.

Making tires bigger in any dimension also changes how much surface tension you get on the outside for what kind of air pressure inside.

 

Last time i checked, it wasn't coming to the US. But if it did, it'd have to have something similar to the F1: S&D. Thats also the reason why the F1 could weight something like 2600lbs, but not be allowed in the US as a regular car. But we'll still see if it changes. It'll also be intersting to see how much the Merc R50 weights and if it comes to the US.

 

Of course I know that. AP knows that too.

GT3RS already has a different suspension setup than the GT3. Also had the fenders re-worked massively just so AP can fit those tires. They do, barely, some cars who had custom geometry are rubbing the hell out of it. Fitting wider tires to a chassis is not a simple bolt-on like a certain clueless someone here says.

The reporter who wrote the story probably just do some quick and dirty edit to fit the wording in the available space.

 

You mean the N1 spec from the GT3RS onto the 918?

For city speed yeah they will run. Normal highway speed too.

But for high performance driving it won't work. Or perform as well as one might expect.

The N0 spec tires' sidewalls are constructed with the mid-engine 918's weight distribution in mind. The N1 spec are built to the rear engined GT3RS.

As for the 918/GT3RS sized Trofeo R, Pirelli made them with a generic side wall constructions. Not biased towards mid-engine or rear engine.

The Trofeo R fitted onto the P1 at least are McLaren specific, those were the option tires for the 12C platform. The stock Corsa's on the P1 are P1 specific, Pirelli and McLaren developed them specifically for the P1's weight distribution.

 

Yes, that's what I meant, sorry. I guess I'm surprised that a true, no compromise performance tire wouldn't be offered for the 918. In order to get the most out of the car. It's been winning I suppose so clearly it doesn't need the help.

 

I would suggest Lieven sues them although it would suck to go through all that with the 66% chance he is WRONG.

Oh no, not another 1000 pages debating what tires were originally fitted and how legit they are.

Further I would note that the Aston is using technology that is 5+ years newer than that used in the last gen hypercars so anything used should be far lighter, more powerful, better packaged et al. Having Adrian Newey involved could also be a moment of genius considering the ultimate hypercar, McLarens F1, was a Gordon Murray excerise with a similar scope.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YOSmv2jXDfA

This is still one of the craziest videos I've ever seen. This owner has some massive juavos. I have no idea what could have been going through the driver of that car the LAF drifted past.

 

the AM-RB 001 also does away with any unecessary drag/weight.

why not run a radiator in the fron? because it's not optimal for aero/weight
why not use batteries+engine? too heavy
why no big wing? too much drag

that being said, pure magnesium wheels are not an option, they tend to burn uncontrollably which means its not worth the weightsaving