Dino - really a true Ferrari or not?

GiveMeSomethingICanUse · Dec 8, 2016

Just to be clear, and before you jump at me, this is not troll bait. I have searched and read page up and down about how the Dino is a true Ferrari with a different badge and that because it's built by Ferrari, using Ferrari specific parts as a homage to Enzo's son, it is to be considered a true Ferrari. It made me wonder why it is not in the list of the "most beautiful Ferraris" poll, and if there is any remaining dispute regarding its true heritage and family status. I'm not a particularly big fan of the car although I have to say it is a lot better looking than the Mondial, and it seems the 360 got some of the design elements of the front end from it. It seems despite the seemingly broad consensus that the Dino is indeed a true Ferrari, it keeps getting left out whenever Ferrari's history of cars are up for discussion. It begs the question, are we agreeing the include it as one of our own as a courtesy to owners whenever the question comes up, or do we quietly disown it without really facing the music? (Edit: I just realized it's too old to be in the current running poll of most beautiful ferraris but I'm still curious).

MalcQV · Dec 8, 2016

It's a car Ferrari Enzo dedicated to his son. Arguably better for it. I mean it's unique.

To answer the question. Yes it is a Ferrari.

Alden · Dec 8, 2016

New member troll.

Welcome!

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

gated_shifter · Dec 8, 2016

without question, a ferrari.

Glassman · Dec 8, 2016

Its a Ferrari.......and a Dino, which makes it extremely rare. And it is also beautiful and the most enjoyable Ferrari I have ever driven....next to a Boxer of course.
I also think this thread is absurd.

GordonC · Dec 8, 2016

GiveMeSomethingICanUse said: ↑

Just to be clear, and before you jump at me, this is not troll bait. I have searched and read page up and down about how the Dino is a true Ferrari with a different badge and that because it's built by Ferrari, using Ferrari specific parts as a homage to Enzo's son, it is to be considered a true Ferrari.
Click to expand...

Well, if you searched, then you should know that this exact question has been debated here dozens of times, so yet another thread on the subject is indeed troll bait.

GiveMeSomethingICanUse · Dec 8, 2016

Like I said, not trolling, just genuinely interested in what people regard it as. I don't have a dog in the race. Mechanically it is compromised of the same parts as a genuine Ferrari, it's a Ferrari creation in the sense that Enzo himself blessed it, and the only thing it doesn't have is the brand name and badge. I would say it's a Ferrari if a Lexus is a Toyota, an Infinity a Nissan, an Acura a Honda etc. They are built by the same company, but rebranded with a different purpose. Since the Dino was an attempt to move more cars and make more money, I would argue that it is not any more of a "Ferrari" than a Honda is an Acura. Is the Lexus LFA a Toyota? It's a fair argument. You hear Lexus owners say "it's not really a Toyota", but it is, isn't it? Then you have those who say Lamborghinis after Audi acquired them are not really true Lamborghinis, and some say the R8 is really a Lamborghini. The R8 shares so many parts with the Gallardo/Huracan that it is arguably a Lamborghini, or the other way around depending on whether you regard current or original ownership as the end factor. Then you have the question, what about car design? If the same guy designed multiple cars across different brands, can he call the cars by his name? Is a Bob Dylan song a true Bob Dylan song if it was written by someone else but recorded by Bob Dylan? I would say the Dino is NOT a true Ferrari, simply because it was not intended to be one, it went by a different brand name catering to a different market. What it is, however, is an Enzo Ferrari creation. Applying the same logic using a music producer: famous pop music producer Max Martin has written and produced hits for Britney Spears, Adriana Grande, Katy Perry, Backstreet Boys, Kelly Clarkson etc. If you own an album by any of these artists, do you own a Max Martin album or one by the branded artist? I would say you own an album by the branded artist. Applying the same logic to Dino/Ferrari I would argue that if you own a Dino, you own a Dino, not a Ferrari. You own the branded product.

toggie · Dec 8, 2016

GiveMeSomethingICanUse said: ↑

Like I said, not trolling, just genuinely interested in what people regard it as. I don't have a dog in the race. Mechanically it is compromised of the same parts as a genuine Ferrari, it's a Ferrari creation in the sense that Enzo himself blessed it, and the only thing it doesn't have is the brand name and badge. I would say it's a Ferrari if a Lexus is a Toyota, an Infinity a Nissan, an Acura a Honda etc. They are built by the same company, but rebranded with a different purpose. Since the Dino was an attempt to move more cars and make more money, I would argue that it is not any more of a "Ferrari" than a Honda is an Acura. Is the Lexus LFA a Toyota? It's a fair argument. You hear Lexus owners say "it's not really a Toyota", but it is, isn't it? Then you have those who say Lamborghinis after Audi acquired them are not really true Lamborghinis, and some say the R8 is really a Lamborghini. The R8 shares so many parts with the Gallardo/Huracan that it is arguably a Lamborghini, or the other way around depending on whether you regard current or original ownership as the end factor. Then you have the question, what about car design? If the same guy designed multiple cars across different brands, can he call the cars by his name? Is a Bob Dylan song a true Bob Dylan song if it was written by someone else but recorded by Bob Dylan? I would say the Dino is NOT a true Ferrari, simply because it was not intended to be one, it went by a different brand name catering to a different market. What it is, however, is an Enzo Ferrari creation. Applying the same logic using a music producer: famous pop music producer Max Martin has written and produced hits for Britney Spears, Adriana Grande, Katy Perry, Backstreet Boys, Kelly Clarkson etc. If you own an album by any of these artists, do you own a Max Martin album or one by the branded artist? I would say you own an album by the branded artist. Applying the same logic to Dino/Ferrari I would argue that if you own a Dino, you own a Dino, not a Ferrari. You own the branded product.
Click to expand...

However, the Dino brand name does not exactly match your examples (such as Acura, Lexus, and Infinity). The reason is, those car manufacturers didn't later merge those brand names as model names.

For example, Toyota did not stop making Lexus cars and rename the Lexus cars as Toyota cars. Ferrari did this.

The Dino 308 GT4 and Dino 208 GT4 cars got renamed the Ferrari 308 GT4 and Ferrari 208 GT4 in May 1976 and continued in production until 1980.
The Dino 308 GT4 started production in 1973 and the Dino 208 GT4 in 1975.

To me, this is the clear reason that Dino cars are in fact Ferraris. So, the earlier Dino 246 GT and GTS cars were also Ferraris.

.

GiveMeSomethingICanUse · Dec 8, 2016

Interesting, I wasn't aware of the renaming. That definitely settles it then. Thanks for the information.

vrsurgeon · Dec 8, 2016

I say "not a real Ferrari" only and I mean only because I'd like the price to drop down to where I can buy one. After that I'll actively campaign about how it should be a real Ferrari because it uses Ferrari parts, built in the factory, etc.

spirot · Dec 8, 2016

The Dino is a member of the Ferrari car company. If you look at chassis build tags - they say Ferrari, not Mfg. by Dino.

the Dino engine was used by Fiat in two examples as well.

Dino's were also raced under the Scuderia Ferrari banner ... so they are Ferrari's.

Enzo at the time wanted to take the money from FIAT for making the 6 cyl engines. he also had to produce a number of the engines for his racing cars to be homologated by the CSI - FIA for racing. Mission accomplished, however ( and this part is highly debatable) Enzo him self did not consider the Dino to be a "Ferrari" as the factory literature said "almost a Ferrari" ... it was early marketing to for an entry level Ferrari.

The Dino V-6 was in use for a while in racing.... badged as a Dino or Ferrari... so at best its literally confusing, but I don't know of any Serious Ferrari historian who does not consider Dino's to be Ferrari cars. so I think you can safely say ... Dino = Ferrari.

250 lusso · Dec 8, 2016

spirot said: ↑

The Dino is a member of the Ferrari car company. If you look at chassis build tags - they say Ferrari, not Mfg. by Dino.

the Dino engine was used by Fiat in two examples as well.

Dino's were also raced under the Scuderia Ferrari banner ... so they are Ferrari's.

Enzo at the time wanted to take the money from FIAT for making the 6 cyl engines. he also had to produce a number of the engines for his racing cars to be homologated by the CSI - FIA for racing. Mission accomplished, however ( and this part is highly debatable) Enzo him self did not consider the Dino to be a "Ferrari" as the factory literature said "almost a Ferrari" ... it was early marketing to for an entry level Ferrari.

The Dino V-6 was in use for a while in racing.... badged as a Dino or Ferrari... so at best its literally confusing, but I don't know of any Serious Ferrari historian who does not consider Dino's to be Ferrari cars. so I think you can safely say ... Dino = Ferrari.
Click to expand...

The Dino name had an associate with Ferrari competition cars going back to the late 50's/early 60's V6 GP and SP cars. It came back in the mid-60's, when the 166SP and 206S were run by Scuderia Ferrari (and privateers). This was, iirc, the first use of the distinct Dino badging on the noses of Dino-powered cars, and therefore arguably the first move in the direction of having Dino become a distinct brand or sub-brand of Ferrari.

Probably the most notable use and success of the street Dino 246GT motor in competition was its fitment in the back of the Lancia Stratos rally cars.

Is the 246GT / GTS a Ferrari? Yes, imho.

nerofer · Dec 9, 2016

toggie said: ↑

However, the Dino brand name does not exactly match your examples (such as Acura, Lexus, and Infinity). The reason is, those car manufacturers didn't later merge those brand names as model names.

For example, Toyota did not stop making Lexus cars and rename the Lexus cars as Toyota cars. Ferrari did this.

The Dino 308 GT4 and Dino 208 GT4 cars got renamed the Ferrari 308 GT4 and Ferrari 208 GT4 in May 1976 and continued in production until 1980.
The Dino 308 GT4 started production in 1973 and the Dino 208 GT4 in 1975.

To me, this is the clear reason that Dino cars are in fact Ferraris. So, the earlier Dino 246 GT and GTS cars were also Ferraris.

.
Click to expand...

BUT the renaming was just over the skin: because under the skin, where it counts, "Dinos" were never manufactured by Ferrari, but by "Dino" until the end of production: in 1980, when Ferrari began using the 17 position VIN, "Dinos" used a specific VIN indicating they were "Dinos" indeed, NOT Ferraris!

17 Positions VIN for Ferraris is ZFF, etc.
For Dinos, it was "ZDF", this indicating that, in 1980, for the international registration of cars, "Dino" was still considered as a different manufacturer than Ferrari...

Alden · Dec 9, 2016

GiveMeSomethingICanUse said: ↑

Like I said, not trolling...........Applying the same logic to Dino/Ferrari I would argue that if you own a Dino, you own a Dino, not a Ferrari. You own the branded product.
Click to expand...

You are new here, but sorry, but you ARE trolling in the truest sense of the word. Ripping off the band-aid and stirring up a controversy that was settled long ago.

The name sake, Dino, was Enzo's son who died too young and probably broke the "old man's" heart. It's a Ferrari. Leave it at that.

AND....most owners of the highly valued and respected, but once lowly Dino would agree.

Why a new member would start his F chat career with a post like this is beyond me. Lots of other stuff to ask about.

BTW, try some paragraph breaks in your posts too, it is easier to read that way.
Alden

GiveMeSomethingICanUse · Dec 9, 2016

Alden, I'm sorry you feel that way. You are entitled to your opinion of course, as long as you don't try to dictate what people do here. What I choose to post, how I post it and what I spend my time on is my business. Are you really asking me to change my text formatting to cater to your preference? That's more than a friendly suggestion. You clearly intended it to be a snide remark. If you have a problem with my writing style, ignore my posts. It is likely that we are worlds apart when it comes to our interest in cars anyway. I think one of the greatest assets of a forum is the diversity of opinions, even including yours - but don't try to dictate what people do on the board. That's poor taste. I'm assuming you're older, given you own a Mondial and have trouble with long paragraphs, so out of respect for the elderly I will leave it at that.

GiveMeSomethingICanUse · Dec 9, 2016

Back to the topic at hand, it's interesting to see other people's educated opinions about the Dino. I don't question the authenticity of the Dino as a Ferrari creation. Nerofer makes an intriguing point with the VIN codes, though. I would argue that in light of this fact, pre-80s Dino's are perhaps not to be considered "Ferrari" branded cars. Built with Ferrari components and envisioned by Ferrari, but a different brand altogether that was a strategic move by Ferrari to increase sales. I think the parallel to Lexus/Toyota etc is OK. If Toyota one day decided to merge Lexus into Toyota and get rid of the Lexus brand, it doesn't automatically make older Lexus cars Toyotas. It is nitpicking, no doubt about it, but perhaps it's one of those things where we will never really find a definite answer (because the weight of each element is different depending on the viewpoint of each individual and their ownership status). It seems clear, however that Dino owners think it's a Ferrari, while controversy still exists among others. I think we can agree on one thing, though. While perhaps not the greatest looking of the cars to come out of Maranello, it certainly has a strong emotional history.

Alden · Dec 9, 2016

GiveMeSomethingICanUse said: ↑

Alden, I'm sorry you feel that way. You are entitled to your opinion of course, as long as you don't try to dictate what people do here. What I choose to post, how I post it and what I spend my time on is my business. Are you really asking me to change my text formatting to cater to your preference? That's more than a friendly suggestion. You clearly intended it to be a snide remark. If you have a problem with my writing style, ignore my posts. It is likely that we are worlds apart when it comes to our interest in cars anyway. I think one of the greatest assets of a forum is the diversity of opinions, even including yours - but don't try to dictate what people do on the board. That's poor taste. I'm assuming you're older, given you own a Mondial and have trouble with long paragraphs, so out of respect for the elderly I will leave it at that.
Click to expand...

"Troll on" please.

Your post is clearly assumptive, condescending and insulting to me.

Judging my "interest in cars" without knowing me and stating that "owning a Mondial" and refusing to read large blocks of text makes me an old man is crossing line.

Sorry I hurt your feelings, but mine was not not a snide remark. It was the truth.

You will find a lot of members will not read one big block of text.

That is why they invented paragraph breaks - make text easier to read.

We are fighting a battle of long block "text talk" posts with lots of misspellings on most forums that make the writer's meaning hard to understand......and "run on" endless text posts too - we may lose, but the truth remains - if you want your posts read, make them conform closer to conventional writing style or risk them being ignored.

I don't care if you want to be the next Hunter Thompson, just make your posts here easier to read and comprehend.

You have made my "ignore" list. Congrats. You are one of three and since you are new, welcome and good luck making friends here.
Alden

GiveMeSomethingICanUse · Dec 9, 2016

Alden, I'm not offended, hurt or upset. Just slightly irritated by your petty mission to police people's writing style on a public forum. Naturally, I have no intention of adhering to your silly "rules", but in the sole interest of getting through to you in order to make a final point, I will make an exclusive exception. Break out your monocle and pay attention, for I shall say this only once:

I am honored to be on your prestigious list of people you ignore. A world of rogue text formatters and bad spellers is a chaotic world indeed. Fight the good fight!

You will be delighted to note that you have been given the same treatment on this end.

Perhaps one day, if you are able to break out of your pedantic antics, you will be able to appreciate the meaning of the word diversity, whether it is in relation to cars, or text formatting on a forum.

I would make a Mondial jab just to settle the score, but you are probably already inundated with those on a daily basis.

Have a nice day.

dm_n_stuff · Dec 9, 2016

Sorry.

Troll.

IfTheShoeFitsWearIt.

This is a thoroughly discussed and answered question, that will still never be completely resolved, as we can't ask Enzo what he thinks, and I don't believe there's a definitive quote from him on this EXCEPT in the sales brochure for the Dino.

"tiny, brilliant, safe . . . almost a Ferrari."

/EOT

spirot · Dec 9, 2016

GiveMeSomethingICanUse said: ↑

Back to the topic at hand, it's interesting to see other people's educated opinions about the Dino. I don't question the authenticity of the Dino as a Ferrari creation. Nerofer makes an intriguing point with the VIN codes, though. I would argue that in light of this fact, pre-80s Dino's are perhaps not to be considered "Ferrari" branded cars. Built with Ferrari components and envisioned by Ferrari, but a different brand altogether that was a strategic move by Ferrari to increase sales. I think the parallel to Lexus/Toyota etc is OK. If Toyota one day decided to merge Lexus into Toyota and get rid of the Lexus brand, it doesn't automatically make older Lexus cars Toyotas. It is nitpicking, no doubt about it, but perhaps it's one of those things where we will never really find a definite answer (because the weight of each element is different depending on the viewpoint of each individual and their ownership status). It seems clear, however that Dino owners think it's a Ferrari, while controversy still exists among others. I think we can agree on one thing, though. While perhaps not the greatest looking of the cars to come out of Maranello, it certainly has a strong emotional history.
Click to expand...

I think Dino's have been some of the most beautiful Ferrari's ever produced. I ask anyone to look at a 206 Dino Gt, with knockoffs and not tell me that this is not a fabulous car! the Dino GT4... ok Bertone was not as elegant as Pinninfarina... but even then they do have a strking look, and you can tell its a Ferrari from a mile away.... a current California.. no so much.....
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

GiveMeSomethingICanUse · Dec 9, 2016

Spirot, I agree. The 206 and 246 are quite attractive indeed. They seem to take particularly well to the fly yellow finish. The 308 GT4 on the other hand..

Robb · Dec 9, 2016

Yes, it is a Ferrari.

And No, I will not read one giant block of text from anyone.

Robb

TheMayor · Dec 9, 2016

No.

And proudly so.

"We don't have no badges. We don't have to show you any badges. We don't need any STINKING BADGES!"

ShineKen · Dec 9, 2016

2 pages in and no one has inserted the dead horse gif?

WJGESQ · Dec 9, 2016

GordonC said: ↑

Well, if you searched, then you should know that this exact question has been debated here dozens of times, so yet another thread on the subject is indeed troll bait.
Click to expand...

Give hm a break. It's a fair inquiry and probably something that we've all thought about you drama queens.

Conversations

Alerts

Dino - really a true Ferrari or not?

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

MalcQV F1 Rookie

Alden F1 Rookie
Rossa Subscribed

gated_shifter Formula Junior

Glassman F1 World Champ
Rossa Subscribed

GordonC F1 Rookie
Owner Rossa Subscribed

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

toggie F1 World Champ
Owner Silver Subscribed

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
Silver Subscribed

spirot F1 World Champ

250 lusso Karting

nerofer F1 World Champ

Alden F1 Rookie
Rossa Subscribed

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

Alden F1 Rookie
Rossa Subscribed

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
Lifetime Rossa Owner

spirot F1 World Champ

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

Robb Moderator
Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
Rossa Subscribed

ShineKen Two Time F1 World Champ
Silver Subscribed

WJGESQ Formula 3

Share This Page

Dino - really a true Ferrari or not?

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

MalcQV F1 Rookie

Alden F1 Rookie Rossa Subscribed

gated_shifter Formula Junior

Glassman F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed

GordonC F1 Rookie Owner Rossa Subscribed

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

toggie F1 World Champ Owner Silver Subscribed

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

vrsurgeon F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

spirot F1 World Champ

250 lusso Karting

nerofer F1 World Champ

Alden F1 Rookie Rossa Subscribed

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

Alden F1 Rookie Rossa Subscribed

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

spirot F1 World Champ

GiveMeSomethingICanUse Karting

Robb Moderator Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed

ShineKen Two Time F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

WJGESQ Formula 3

Share This Page

Alden F1 Rookie
Rossa Subscribed

Glassman F1 World Champ
Rossa Subscribed

GordonC F1 Rookie
Owner Rossa Subscribed

toggie F1 World Champ
Owner Silver Subscribed

vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
Silver Subscribed

Alden F1 Rookie
Rossa Subscribed

Alden F1 Rookie
Rossa Subscribed

dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
Lifetime Rossa Owner

Robb Moderator
Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
Rossa Subscribed

ShineKen Two Time F1 World Champ
Silver Subscribed