'Official' F12M Rumours and Launch | Page 27 | FerrariChat

'Official' F12M Rumours and Launch

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Traveller, Oct 4, 2016.

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  1. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
    1,541
    Perhaps what is meant is a 80kg loss over the F12B versus the F12m. Not the TDF.
    I agree that a 200kg loss is insane and not be beneficial to the actual drive. A GT car also needs a certain weight.
     
  2. dud

    dud Karting

    Apr 30, 2016
    201
    Boston
    Those that want new customers and figure the old ones won't leave even when the business makes changes clearly favoring the (potential) new customers.
     
  3. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
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    Tim
    Ah ha! That is possible, although still surprising, but possible. I don't believe it shares the tdf carbon bodywork etc so it will be a struggle. The other point is that Ferrari knows that they need to differentiate their products and will not step on the tdf's toes which will still be the most visceral expression of its DNA for now.
     
  4. dud

    dud Karting

    Apr 30, 2016
    201
    Boston
    Exactly. We shouldn't just look at current engines plus electric. You could make a smaller v12 that is actually great for the customer. Sound, responsiveness, all that you could improve. If you cut off more and more volume you could also start thinking about flat motors, or even Boxers.

    Imagine this car:
    • AWD (only) via electric motors in the front. Two of them, like in a locomotive. No differential. Traction control only via power. Could also help with the braking. Nothing goes to the front wheels except cables.
    • The floor of the car is plastered with electric batteries.
    • A flat-12 is in between or on top of the batteries. Total center of gravity is very low.
    • Flat-12 drives rear wheels and a single electric motor hanging off the rear that can also be used as a generator to charge the batteries.

    Going away from a single, large combustion engine could really benefit center of gravity and you can dump a bunch of AWD gear. You also don't need ninja transmission anymore since the new combustion engine would have less maximum torque.
     
  5. Benny Blanco

    Benny Blanco Rookie

    Feb 17, 2012
    14
    Will it have that horrible shortened look of its rear in profile, as the f12?
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzbIGggCUAEnRQC.jpg

    Or it will get a new rear bumper that will make its rear look a lil longer and much more beautiful? Thanks
     
  6. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
    1,541
    The gap between the TDF and the 512m will be 2 years. 2 years of technological progress. It will be a newer car. Does that mean better then the TDF? No, simply newer and more advanced.
    The minute I stopped look at cars as a numbers game if when I started enjoying them more. Hence why I enjoy driving a 730hp F12 over my 1600hp GTR.
     
  7. omd78

    omd78 F1 World Champ

    Dec 26, 2005
    13,242
    Breda, Netherlands
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    Martin
    Congratulations gentlemen!

    Gr. Martin
     
  8. AutobahnAndTrack

    AutobahnAndTrack Formula Junior

    Dec 31, 2014
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    Frankfurt, Germany
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    Stefan G
    A stated -80kg vs F12B would be like actual -60kg which would be fantastic in combination with like +60hp.

    SSC3 plus RWS would be fun on the road.
     
  9. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2006
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    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    I was offered an F12 build 2 weeks ago.
    Already have a much loved grigio Titanio F12 ('16) so turned it down...though I was sorely tested...almost built a second one.
    What a sickness this is!
    😜
     
  10. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Apr 6, 2004
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    Perhaps the offer of another F12 build is an indication of the slow march to production for the new F12M version.
    The slow build of the new Lusso may also foreshadow a similar pattern of delays too...
     
  11. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
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    Tim
    I think that's right. We know GTC4 deliveries are way behind, so too 488 Spider as well as tdf and the mere fact the Daytona dealer launch featured a non runner without even headlights was clearly not a wish but a result of other delays. Put it all together and it is clear extra F12 orders have been sourced to help plug the gap. Amazing that Ferrari can achieve this with an outgoing model.
     
  12. Solid State

    Solid State F1 World Champ
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Folks - there's nothing visceral about silent, ugly electric motors. Just marching your way toward a tesla with a Ferrari badge. As Trump likes to say "...believe me"!

    Also, would love to know how the displacement was increased. Someone said it was a completely new engine. If it were, then no sense in immediately going to a much smaller V12 with electric. My guess is the same or similar block (F140 variant) with slightly larger bore but not an all new design. It should be around for a while. Really wanting to see the intake setup and engine specs.

    tdf owners should not fear the new Daytona. It is not a limited run. The Daytona Speciale, yes, but tdf owners will be first for it as well so no worries. Wonderful time to be alive and enjoy Ferrari.
     
  13. nads

    nads Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2008
    878
    London, UK
    Typically I would assume that they would re-tool the assembly line for the F12M to commence production after the summer break........till then why not churn out as many F12's as they can sell.
     
  14. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    I would say late June the new M versions would be slowly built and then those examples would go for factory verification work and getting the workers familiar with the changes. Also you would want at least a month before the shut down to solve problems that always seem to happen with an new build.
    Then September drives for the journalists to experience and write about the latest and greatest new Ferrari.

    The real bottleneck is the limited supply of V12 motors for old F12 or new Lusso. Of course a V8 Lusso would ease that concern...
     
  15. cesman

    cesman Formula Junior

    Jul 13, 2008
    781
    London, UK
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    Craig
    I did get a notification from the dealer when spec'ing my 488 that the V12 production line is off limits - so they must be busy with the F12M.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Zaius

    Zaius Formula Junior

    May 8, 2014
    863

    Ya it makes no sense why you would pair a V12 with anything. Really at this point its just about producing a car for the sake of producing one.
     
  17. rockitman

    rockitman F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2015
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    Christian
    It's a testament on how good a car the F12B really is.
     
  18. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
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    Tim
    Too true.
     
  19. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2012
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    daniel
    Very well written, thank you Caeruleus11!

    My thoughts are: Ferrari has recently announced that they want to make the character of each model even more extreme. What does this mean for the F12? More GT? More "racing"? Both? Finally, what is a F12, what will it be? When I have been driving the F12 I was irritated. Not as agile, nimble and consequent as a mid-engine super car and for a GT somehow too "extroverted". Please don't get me wrong, this should not be an attack. I almost bought it, but only almost...

    I do not compare the F12 with a Mercedes AMG GT R or the coming Corvette ZR1, they are playing on a different price level. Also I do not compare it with the 2+2 seater wellness oasis with sporting ambitions Aston Martin DB11.

    Hmmmm, while reading what I have written I start to recognize what the F12 is; it is quite simply unique. Damned!

    I think Ferrari is well advised to continue with the front-mid engine V12 high rev. concept.
    My personal wish; Ferrari, please make this car just lighter, more powerful, faster and that it is on the front axle more binding and more nimble. I hope this is possible with the heavy engine in front...

    Hmmmm, while reading what I have written now I start to think about a 488 Speciale... ;)

    I'm very curious!
     
  20. ab08

    ab08 Formula Junior

    Aug 28, 2007
    475
    Disagree. There is no way to compare an all-electric car (Tesla) with a main N/A engine sportscar with assistence of a secondary electric motor (hybrid). Is like compare a Tesla with a LaFerrari.
    So... yes, the secondary electric motor, in this particular scenario, will keep the "viscerality", "drama", sound, and caracteristics of the main N/A engine, and, for Gods sake, open the possibility to Ferrari finally get rid of the bland and untraditional turbocharged technology in the V8 line, very soon.
    Last but not least, with hybrid tech the engine easily deliver a monstruous and linear torque, far superior than ancient turbo tech.

    Just my $0,02.
     
  21. Solid State

    Solid State F1 World Champ
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Not comparing the two, of course. Marching toward means evolving to. Electric hybrid evolves to electric only. Ferrari has chosen larger NA only V12 for Daytona. They know what they are doing in their flagship class. Its a beautiful thing to watch.
     
  22. Milanno

    Milanno Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2012
    949
    Current Ferrari buyers had posters of gasoline powered cars as their dream cars. They are strongly connected to gasoline engine, power delivery, sound, shifting etc.

    Future buyers appreciate other things. Technical gadgets, smartphone-like options, silence, no sound at all etc.

    I am sure Ferrari is aware od this and lets not forget - they are building cars for FUTURE buyers, not for current and past clients.

    Future buyers will be in love with amazing Ferrari brand, great performance figures, superb handling, sexy design and silent engine. Mark my words!
     
  23. AutobahnAndTrack

    AutobahnAndTrack Formula Junior

    Dec 31, 2014
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    Stefan G
    Sure, they will love the Ferrari brand that is based on the best sounding gasoline engines in Formula 1 and street cars.
     
  24. Milanno

    Milanno Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2012
    949
    You are wrong my friend. Young generation that is coming is not so connected to "gasoline culture" like current Ferrari owners. They are more into technology, games, environmental care and stuff.

    Try talking with Tesla owners. They are proud that they are driving "eco" and "smart" car. Those are "new era" values in automotive industry. As you can see those new values are getting more and more important to big players like Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari...

    So, for current owners gasoline engine and raw sound is very important. For new generation that is coming, gasoline engine is complicated, dirty, and not "cool". Gasoline engine exhaust is rude.
     
  25. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 2, 2005
    2,619
    Earth
    +1, And quicker than anyone will believe.
     

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