Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

And just to add, this is what happens when you take tyre type and size out of the equation.

Alexander West takes his LaFerrari FXX K and P1 GTR to Silverstone GP - FastestLaps.com

Now seen as Cup 2 vs Trofeos bother you and your kind, the P1 LM uses nice 285+325 section Cup 2s, so Porsche are welcome to try race that on Spa or COTA in the 918 if they like, which would surely be sheer comedy. Then you will have similar tyre width and equal tyre, we'll see what happens then.

 

So, tires are the separating factor in the FXX K and P1 GTR from their road going counter parts? You're serious with that crap? They may as well be brand new cars. Let Porsche strip everything they can out of a 918 (100+ kg's), increase hp 50+ and triple the downforce, and it'll be right there or above the P1 GTR and FXX K just like it's at or above the P1 and LAF. Like Whoopsy says, at least make us try and use our brains in rebuffing your nonsense

 

I agree the tires on the P1 are too narrow. However, that was how the car was designed by McLaren. So by saying that eliminating this difference to make it more comparable to the grip by LaFerrari and 918 misses the point entirely.

Each manufacturer made compromises in design for their car. With the 918, it is noticably heavier than the P1 or LaFerrari, mostly due to extra motor and larger battery pack. LaFerrari compromised with less downforce and a poor name. In comparing the cars, should the McLaren and Ferrari be forced to carry 100kg of ballast to make the comparison more fair? Or should McLaren be forced to use a smaller wing to be more fair to the other two? Obviously not. These were design specifications of each car.

So if it was so easy for the McLaren to spec wider tires, why didn't they? I would challenge you to look up the tire widths of any production car with more than 700bhp and see if any are as narrow as the P1. I would bet not. McLaren, being an F1 team, would know the importance of tire width on a high performance car. So why the disconnect?

 

Hellcat uses narrow tires and has over 700 hp. It's a burnout machine. That's the only car I think of that uses such narrow tires and has crazy power.

 

They wouldn't be able to strip anything like 100kg out. They already stripped quite a bit for the WS. 50kg is what they managed for the P1 GTR.

Increasing HP for 918, not very easy. Already very highly strung NA engine packing about 133hp/L, battery already maxed out in HL mode.

The Porsche would just be heavier than the other two, and the traction advantage of the road car would be mostly negated by slicks and they'd all be using similar width tyres and similar rubber (so another advantage gone). To achieve the same downforce-to-weight ratio, Porsche would also have to massively increase drag too. It would be a pig.

 

Not really, it was designed as a road car, so using narrower tyres reduces tramlining. The wider 285+325 tyres on the P1 LM would make a massive difference. And they're Cup 2s as well.

The 918 weighs more because they went with AWD and 4WS, which add significant weight. They did that for a traction advantage. The negligible weight saving from narrower tyres is insignificant and it was mostly a compromise for road manners, not performance. There's literally no valid performance pay-off for narrower tyres.

If you wanted to compare the actual chassis+engine (918 and P1) without tyres being a factor, the P1 LM vs 918 would be a more square match up.

 

kay, so if this was lap 2 and your verdict was that it was much quicker than the 918 because of its abilities and in your words (the 918 can only do one lap) then either A - did they stop between laps for some time so the passenger could get in or B - did it have two up the entire time?

 

You can read you know.

 

1st comment, sure they could, remove all complicated electronics form interior/creature comforts, fix the roof, remove active aero, etc.

2nd comment, every bit as easy as Laf adding 50 hp.

3rd comment, stupid, not worth responding (you don't understand the relationship between downforce and drag it seems).

 

Lol. You are now comparing a super tuned P1 with polycarbonate windows, 80 extra hp, 40 percent more downforce than the original, of which only 6 will be made by a separate company, against a stock 918. Do you see the fault in this logic? The subject of this thread was a comparison of the three cars, not one off custom tuner cars.

 

I participate in some groups where Alexander West has made some comments about FXXK and P1GTR.


His comments are: p1 gtr, fxxk are basically the same as the road versions with slicks.

He thinks the best race car he has is mclaren 650 GT3. (he races it in a series)

There are some comments from owners who have all 3 or combinations of the three. However, they are not public and it probably wouldn't be a good idea for me to even state what they said.

Note: whoopsy would also know some people who own across the three and know what to do with them. (the track day that he mentioned where he did a 918 and gt3rs also had a p1/918 owner at that event who also knows what he's doing).

 

And the unanimous consensus is that they don't give a damn about which one is the fastest, the P1 is a handful because of the narrower tires but that's what make it fun, hanging the tail out in corners and the noise it makes inside the car. The 918 is also tricky to drive at the limit as it doesn't quite behave like a normal car, but the corner exit speeds of the 918 is just unreal. Not many LaFerrari owners dare to take them out though.


btw, can you not see Mycroft's tactics now? He uses flawed logic for his arguments, but if someone else use the same logic against him, he would dismisses them as flawed. Also, he keep moving the goal posts to his liking, like oh we are not talking about the fastest lap anymore, we should talk about the SECOND lap, an arbitrary target that suits his argument. But give him credit though, he is just about the most consistent troll on the internet.

 

Thanks. Some scrupulous "fastest-laps" watchers measured (from the video) the laptimes were: (quote: ) P1 GTR - 2:06.13 and FXXK - 2:07.28 , say .1 and .3

A.West comment: "In the P1GTR i was on new tyres and no passenger. i didnt do a single lap on new tyres in the FXXK and i might have had a passenger. New tyres should be 1.5-2 secs a lap."

... and again a tiny bit faster when you kick a passenger out

 

Im curious to know if someone knows someone or they themselves have had experience with the vulcan and how it would compare to the GTR and FXXK. That could also give a clue as to how the Am-RB 001 would perform. IIRC, the Vulcan was supposedly faster on cup2's than aston's own GT3 car.

 

Amen to the consensus. This topic is hardly ever discussed among the various owners. I know a few and it's something we just don't discuss. We Just enjoy the cars.

Regarding mycroft; i will hand it to him that he has introduced different ways of looking at lap times, tires, different data points, etc. Whether people agree with him or not is a different question. It's probably made people much more aware of the different things that can affect lap times, results.

If lieven/mycroft wants to extend this by another 100 pages then he needs to discuss Viper ACR tires -

 

Careful hitching the ferrari bandwagon to A. West. He is a highly credible source based on his car collection, racing and tracking.

You might not like what his conclusions are...

 

You don't think the other two did that too?

LaF was never as highly strung in the first place.

Actually I do, go research lift/downforce induced drag.

 

So, equal sized tyres. And it can do more than one lap. Porsche made the WS pack right? Well this is the McLaren equivalent.

 

Go re-watch the Ferrari video:

1. The time was far closer to 2:08 than 2:07.

2. The passenger was not in the Ferrari during the timed lap between 1:52 and 4:00, he appeared after the edit at 4:06.

3. Naturally he has to try not to offend high command, but why would he show the lap not on new tyres? At 1:46 after the edit, when he says, "Couple of laps," do you think he waited until his tyres were worn to do them.

Good try with the excuses though. Read what he says about weight in the comments though.

http://www.germancarforum.com/threads/porsche-918-vs-mclaren-p1-vs-laferrari-topgear-evo-etc.52070/page-99#post-818260

 

The Vulcan Lap of Spa was about the same as Alexander West's lap in the P1 GTR. I have seen the Vulcan on Cup 2s in video though, so whether it wore those or slicks in the Spa lap I don't know. The GTR lap had some traffic too. 650S GT3 runs just slightly quicker on Spa with same driver.

http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/2%20-SPA/Q1%20Final.pdf

 

That discussion is easy.

How did the MkV ACR drop 5.3s from the MkIV ACR's time on Laguna. Slight hp increase, minor chassis and aero tweaks, that gives about 1s, the rest was what the tyres gave with their super soft UTQG 20 outer layer.

 

The whole dreadful convo of which is fastest will end when the next series of hypercars (looks like they'll be hybrids as well) hits the market. Let's hope Ksegg lets the regera be tested. AM-RB, Mercedes, I'm sure Mclaren will release something insane in the next 2-3 years that'll be faster than a P1. At that point we can argue about different cars I suppose but this thread will luckily be put to bed.

 

the P1 GTR LM version is again noticeably faster round circuits than the P1 GTR and is also road legal.

 

I have already explained why the car wasn't stock, noise limits. They had to extensively modify the exhaust overnight.

Are you serious when you say that a factory driver must be the best possible scenario for a fast time? Doesn't that depend on who the driver is??? K-egg's test driver has very little experience in racing and hasn't even set foot on Spa before, yet he's the best man for the job according to you?
He got pointers from a race car driver (can't remember who atm) on how to drive the track the same day he set the lap record time btw. But I guess in your world that is a vital part of the best case scenario.

You really are trying to set some kind of record in hypocrisy when you say that old tires, less power, a very inexperienced driver and not to mention traffic throughout the lap which very noticably slowed them down are "pathetic excuses" for not going as fast as possible.

Also, again, how easy it is for another car to break the lap record on a completely different track has literally, figuratively, spiritually (or whatever take on it you can ever come up with) NOTHING to do with this.

So now the P1 LM is the equivalent to the 918 with a Weissach pack?
Wow..

 

I honestly think this is his craziest assertion yet.