I love the font they used for "ONE BILLION DOLLARS". Could easily have been used on a heavy metal album back in the day. LOL
An alternative design for Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies??? I don't (personally) know any billionaires, only millionaires, but as we all know from Austin Powers, a million dollars isn't that much these days.
Ok... so dont take this the wrong way... I am being sincere when I ask you this... What things are feeling familiar. I would agree with you about a year ago... but in recent months, I believe we have seen cooling. The completely overblown porsche market has withered and corrected. SL Mercedes have done the same. Carrera GTs have corrected Testarossas have corrected The stupid and ridiculous 6 speed idiocy has corrected (with rare cars still bringing good money/a premium) 308s have corrected In the general market... things are not moving quickly and prices are adjusting. Hell I have a few cars for sale at bargain prices and they are not really moving. When I say bargain prices I mean very very very low to fair prices. They are good cars as well. They may not be the most desirable as they are more common spec cars but... to me its the masses that start and end these crazy bubbles. As to the idiots the jumped on the hype train of the above examples... most are too scared to jump back in. They have scared money and they are only in it for the money. Not willing to ride out the ownership of a great car for the sake of a great car. I will say great cars, the best cars are still bringing record money, but I do feel that is mostly because those cars in particular were undervalued and again special cars people pay premiums for and always will
I am not expert but 6 speeds are very rare. These prices are silly now too low and will never go down more. More money but less cars how can equal lower price? Prices now that are lower are wrong. Not sure how low they can go but will not go lower in my opinion. 30% 40% okay but more? No way. Stock market is higher and more rich people so it doesnt make sense Who is scared to jump in?? I might not buy now because maybe 40% down is more possible for a few months and I would rather save the money but not scared (except roads here where I live are scary but hopefully trump will pave them)
I appreciate your response. I would continue the argument with but... more money and "less cars" equal a lower price. You forgot the most important part... demand. If there is only 1 but no one cares... and no demand its price is almost zero. For example if I made a rap album... I would sell exactly 1... ok maybe 2. 1 to my mother and another to my friends who would never let me forget it. LOL Neither copy would be worth very much money if any. My question to you is how are there less 6 speeds? Also, as we continue on with new and modern technology more people will look backwards and the 6 speed 430 won't mean much as when looking for a classic car... there are more decades of cars with a manual transmission than without. So the manual experience while more rare on newer cars is the vast majority of cars built before say... 2005 for ferrari and 2009 for Porsche. there are lots and lots of cars to choose from. on your who is scared to jump in... I would argue using your own words that you are scared to jump in because you stated that you think there is a period of time (I think you are alluding to a short period of time) where the cars could go down 30 or 40% and you would rather wait to get through that time frame. I would say that would classify you as "scared" (in a non insulting way) to pull the trigger on a particular car. Maybe the better way is to say you would hesitate and use a large amount of caution.
Yes you have very good responses and I appreciate your wisdom. We may agree to dissagree on some but I say most cars can drop now is maybe 20% or 30%, or maybe 40% MAX. But the cars will triple likely in a year or two. Imagine stock go to 25,000 (it is close!) then how can prices not double? Yes, there are many stick cars but now they wont make them except maybe some Porsches and maybe if car makers want to make more for "nostalgae" ....... so the supply is limited and demand is more than that (and no comment on your rap career but maybe you are good???) I must wonder if I bought a tiger paint Ferrari perhaps that will make it the most valuable in the future because it is true one of a kind? I am not sure but deman must be more than 1? I think you make several good points and yes I am scared to waist money. But others have much more than me and so how can they be scared. I may need to think about this all more as I learn more.
I fear we have witnessed the last real classic car bubble. Sure There will always be hobbiests to carry on and the guys that can fix them, but the world is changing very fast. The next 10 years will be very telling. I don't think there will be too many of our kids that will want an old gas fueled car now matter what it is.
Fear? If this was the last one (which it probably isn't) then I say goodbye and good riddance. I won't miss the shameless hype-men and buy-for-profit sheep at all. They screw up the hobby for everyone culture-wise and market-wise. If the market naturally moved down, from this point forward, it should be welcomed by all. It would just mean the means and ability to own more exclusive cars and have lesser expensive insurance. Sounds okay to me. I hope the kanye-listening, ipad toting pompets of next year do hate our gas cars!
As long as there is fools with more money than sense willing to over pay for anything the bubble will remain.
When I look at music videos the youth is watching, I see plenty of old muscle cars and very few Priuses... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Io0fBr1XBUA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDxJlW6cxRk Stunning LeSabre! Even the Stones putting a fastback on the map again: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qEuV82GqQnE As for fixing old metal, it has never been easier with modern tools, remade parts, eBay and the Internet. That is actually a big reason for the increased interest.
So I know this has been discussed at ridiculous length and multiple times... You have a good point. I would ask you not to forget about a few things. The baby boomers may not have had them but wanted the shelby gt500 or what not... and now they are fullfilling there dream and that may die... However, the current crop of "kids" has grown up in the best age of cars EVER. Horsepower wars!!! There are multiple sedans that go 200mph 450hp mustangs for 30k The new Z28 Camaro? ZL1??? There are cars that run 10s from the factory now!!!!!! I am in my 30s and I remember having to put huge power and cages in cars to get them to do a 10. A 10 second car was a rocket ship and now you can buy a 6 passenger car that will do it! 550hp cars are the norm over 50k Our SUVs have 500hp and move 2 to 3 tons to 60 in under 4 seconds... There is a fabulous car culture continuing to this day. Kids may not be into it now... but when there cars of the future suck... and they remember there dad taking them to school in a 60k dollar dodge with 707hp... all bets are off. Also, the horse is still around... and heck they are more expensive now than they were 100 years ago when they were alot more useful. Another factor is the cars are "art" and I don't mean that litterly (some are but thats not my argument) Art serves no function other than to look at. A real davinci vs a great fake has a massive difference in value even though they are to 99.9% of the world the same. also, the market is extremely small especialy when you take into account how many people can write a check for one. Most artists don't become valuable or famous until they are dead... Maybe when the petrol car is dead... it will get a bounce too... Until cars leave the pavement and as long as pavement exists... there is going to be someone who wants to leave two black lines down it. Like art and the fact that famous artists are household names... cars are iconic and will define an era even as a worst case. I cant afford a Renaissance painting and if I could I wouldn't buy it... but I still know the names of these crazy nut jobs who lived hundreds of years before me... and I have even purchased admission into a building to see something I would never care to own or ever be able to afford. At the end of the day. The "market" is too big. There are too many reasons. The reasons are evolving and taking new life every day. To think that such a massive market is going to go away seems crazy... so if anyone wants to fire sale there car... feel free to PM me
let's define bubble... there will be many definitions, each having a different meaning then apply definitions to the various posts... results... will show very few, if any, know what they are talking about... without any consensus, essentially reflecting pointless blather... using "bubble" has lost any meaning
agreed. What we have is sensationalism. It is rampent in our culture. Media Politics Cars Markets Money Feast or famine. On Fire or Fire sale! When people contain their thoughts to 140 characters... you only get that much understanding and depth.
I came across a cite to quantify the -30% figure and wanted to share it for the record. Michael Sheehan's latest newsletter makes reference to an article he originally published online 11-01-2016 that was re-written by the editors of Forza magazine and cites the 30% figure. Here are the first two paragraphs of Mr. Sheehan's email: "This article is based on the same draft as our November 1st online article, "But Mine is Better". This version appeared in the February 2017 issue of Forza Magazine. While we do not normally publish two different versions of the same draft, we felt that the editors at Forza produced a fine article and more importantly, a different take, on the same core premise. We hope you enjoy it. Most Ferrari market followers would agree that values for Enzo- and Fiat-era Prancing Horses peaked close to the 2014 Monterey auctions and are now off by around 30 percent. Similarly, many Montezemolo-era cars peaked in late 2015 and are now off by the same percentage. In either case, you might never know values were falling if you looked only at asking pricesand the reason is something psychologists call the entitlement effect." Mr. Sheehan's original version of the article did not cite any decline figures back in early November. Here is the link to that original article: https://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?reqart=FOC_201611_SS I personally have trouble believing the damage is as bad as -25% to -30%, especially in light of the optimism that has arisen since the election. Gentlemen: the Bubble Thread has been dormant for the past 2 weeks. Let the fisticuffs begin anew!
This is very bad NLP kind of tactics. It is the same kind of language used in global warming articles that cite that "95% of scientists agree climate change is real". This type of wording implies consensus that isn't there by omitting essential elements. Of course scientists agree there is climate change, as it always has been there. The agreement of it in conjunction with directly man-made and solely CO2 caused climate change is intentionally omitted, and when included, that consensus is far, far lower. An awful lot of readers however are fooled and only store the "95% of scientists agree". It seems Mr Sheehan uses a similar kind of tactics. I am a follower of prices and I do not agree prices have dropped, not in $ and especially not in € terms. I have not seen evidence, and without it it is nothing more than an opinion, Mr Sheehan, and too far from "most agree" to write that.
yes, prices have no dropped! i see many cars falling in prices in asked but not selling for maybe 8 months BUT and is key BUt the prices should be higher to make more attraction! It is like pretty girl who gives too easy! right? I see prices maybe done 30% or maybe more in extreme but they should be considere din error since it is winter climate. zwe cannot judge until summer starts. I also do not agree prices should be lower but maybe they are temporarily? my only concern is market of dow janes is at maybe almost 20000 but prices are down. Confused since many here said prices would go down if market fell but now they move contrary. I think many are confused but if I wagered a donkey I would wager prices triple from now so up25%.
Any dip is a buying opportunity in my opinion. Even after the 1990 dip prices veered back in a few years. That dip was a logical event, following a far bigger runup than we just witnessed. That runup was mostly caused by the falling dollar in the four years prior which had sparked inflation fears, and the popping of the Japan bubble which led to Japanese also chasing assets. Todays market interest has different, far less panicky origins. There is little causation between stocks and cars - or it has to be that following a stock bubble, some investors will direct proceeds to buy nice toys. A runup can actually take money out of real assets like cars, as they can be sold for the funds to be redirected to stock market investing. Correlation between the two is usually caused by the age-old common element: money debasement.
