Dino - really a true Ferrari or not?

Hey All,

Check out this video at 1:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUxW8bqAtwg

Largest parade of 964 Ferrari cars: confirmed as an official Guiness

Do I win a prize??!!

 

What do the 206/246 Dino have as its "make" on build plates/registrations/etc...?? Does it say Ferrari?

Or, is Dino considered its "make" and 206/246 its model?

I don't want to add gas to the fire, I'm just truly curious.

 

Usually they were, Brian. At least with the press.

We were discussing the carbed 308 production numbers with Alberto in the 308 section, and when Ferrari communicated their production figures to the press in the late seventies, these always included "Dinos" (= 208GT4 and 308GT4).

As I said in a previous post, when the 17 position VIN was implemented in 1980, Ferrari asked for a different VIN for the "Dinos" (= at that time, 208GT4 and 308GT4), which are "ZDF" instead of "ZFF", which means that they were considered different; I believe that a small number of UK RHD 308GT4 did actually receive a 17 position VIN stamped in the car's plate. As far as I know, but I maybe wrong on this, on these cars the 11th digit was "0" for the Maranello factory.

Rgds

 

right here

Check out this video at 1:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUxW8bqAtwg

Largest parade of 964 Ferrari cars: confirmed as an official Guinness world record

although I admit they might just be allowing the owner in the parade, but didn't make the count?

Nice 308 GT4 behind it too...
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Since the 2nd digit is the legal determination of the make of car in the United States I'd say at least as far as this country goes it is not a Ferrari.

To me the question has never really applied to the 308 but rather to the 246.

Porsche has built Mercedes Benz's in their factory, does not make it a Porsche. Maserati engine parts are made in Maranello, doesn't make that car a Ferrari either. Ferrari later put that motor in a Ferrari, does not make those cars Maseratis. There are hundreds of examples of this. Who actually built a car, or components of that car does not equate to it being that make.

 

Aside from badging a lot of Cadillacs are Chevys, Buicks are Cadillacs and some Mercedes Benz's are really Porsches.

 

As long as we're quibbling :

Nissan Formally Takes Controlling Stake in Mitsubishi Motors - WSJ


According to "purists", "real Ferraris" have 12 cylinders.

But then, according to a girl at my office, my 328 couldn't be "real", because "the doors don't go up".
(I had to explain that even Lambos don't have "Lambo doors" anymore. )

But don't get people started on Porsches with paddle shifters.

 

Just for the record: there is a picture on the net from "a different forum" for a british car (308GT4) with a full 17 position VIN: ZDFBB01C000015484.

Rgds

 

It was said at the time that it was precisely the reasoning for creating a new brand, "Dino", for cars that didn't have 12 cylinders engine and therefore, could not, in Enzo Ferrari's mind, be Ferraris.
Remember that the first two prototypes of the 308 GTB were still badged as "Dinos" only (there are proof by photos in the period press).
Enzo only relented to the Ferrari badge on the "less than 12 cylinder" cars when told about the poor sales of the 308GT4 in the USA (the car was in fact quite well received in Europe)

Rgds

 

I have a question. How many Fiat parts do Ferraris have in them....if not now, in the past I remember people would talk about finding the high priced Ferrari parts very cheap over at the Fiat parts counter. I wonder if this is true and if anyone ever put together a paper on this. Back in the day, some of the old Ferrari guys just wanted their cars to run. They did not care if it had say Fiat on the part someplace. Well not really sure what this has to do with anything but that's the way my mind works. It wonders....

 

Yes, it's true. Check the parts cross reference sticky threads in this forum.

 

Great and wise response.

 

The more interesting question may be whether the 8 cylinder cars are actually Dinos. I have at least one book that states as much. It also defines "Dino" as the "small Ferrari".

 

My hope is one day people will actually look at a Ferrari badge on a Dino and say its worth LESS because someone stuck it on.

"It's not original!"

 

And they have parts from Mitsubishi's, BMW's, General Motors cars, Saab's, Porsches etc.

What difference would it make to this conversation? An auto brand is not established by the parts it contains.

 

Correct. And the 90's were the beginning of the "revisionist history" era at Ferrari.

Heck, even Piero Lardi became Piero "Ferrari".

 

It was even worse from the 1980's to the late 1990's when Porsche "purists" insisted/proclaimed the a "real" Porsche was a 911 because it was air-cooled.

I was personally berated here in Puerto Rico and Florida at the time because my cars (A 1982 928 Weissach Edition and 1986 944 Turbo) were not real Porsches.

But when the dreaded 996 (911) came out with a water-cooled engine and with the [almost identical] 928 GT's real lights, Oh boy! They quickly zipped up about water-cooled engines and had to shove their tongues up their collective As%^&......

 

I have attention deficit disorder among my many other deficits.....

To quote the last sentence of my comment-

Well not really sure what this has to do with anything but that's the way my mind works. It wonders....

 

The GT/4,kept the Dino name even after the factory put Ferrari badges on it.
The 308 GTB was intended to be badged as a Dino initially but was never produced as such.

 

I think it is already the case, at least here in Europe. A well known saying is that a true Dino should not have anything claiming "Ferrari" on it.

Rgds

 

As said above: the last group of 308GT4 produced by the factory in 1980 received a full 17-position VIN, as by the International convention; the VIN for "Dinos GT4" began with "ZDF": a picture of one, a british car, with the VIN ZDFBB01C000015848 can be accessed on the net. The VIN for Ferraris begins with "ZFF". It means that even the last "Dinos" produced were not, by their legal identity, Ferraris.

Of course, I couldn't care less, because to me, a "Dino" (246, or 308GT4) is a good as, or even better than, a Ferrari, but those are the facts.
As said by Visla, the 308GTB was supposed to be a "Dino" also, and the two development prototypes were badged as such, and tested under these "Dino" badges.
It was only under pressure from FIAT that Enzo relented, and that the car was introduced as a "Ferrari" at the Paris salon of 1975.

My guess (only a guess) is that if Enzo could still have it his way today, the 458 and 488 would still be badged as "Dinos" today; because in his mind a car that is not powered by a V12 can't bear the "Ferrari" name.

Rgds

 

A rose is a rose is a rose. G.S.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. W.S.

 

I cross referenced the aircon thermostat from my 328 to a GE industrial part 3ART5 from a "drinks cooler" --
-- yep, from a Coke machine.

And the point is to distract people from the pitchforks and torches.

---

And Enzo refused to consider a mid-engine street car, because he thought it was too hard for "normal people" to control.
It was the V6 "Dino" that convinced him, based on the thought that a lower powered car would be easier for us mere mortals to handle.
That led to him accepting the Boxer mid-mill.

---
What’s Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot, nor arm, nor face,
nor (ahem) any other part belonging to a man.

 

Enzo was a hypocrite.

The first 2 F1 world championships won by Ferrari, in 1952 and 1953 by Alberto Ascari, were with the 500, a 4 cylinder car that was undisputedly a Ferrari.

Their 3rd F1 drivers championship was won by Fangio in 1956, in a V8 Ferrari.

Their 4th F1 drivers championship was won by Hawthorn in 1958, in a V6 Ferrari.

Their 5th F1 drivers championship was won by Hawthorn in 1961, in a V6 Ferrari.

Their 6th F1 drivers championship was won by Hill in 1961, in a V6 Ferrari.

Their 7th F1 drivers championship was won by Surtees in 1964, in a V8 Ferrari.

In fact, the very first 12 cylinder F1 drivers championship winning Ferrari was in 1975, driven by Niki Lauda, their 8th F1 drivers title (but it was a flat 12, not a V12)

For F1 constructors titles, it was similar - #1 in 1961, with the V6; #2 in 1964, with the V8; then their third constructors title in 1975 with the flat 12.

Drivers title #9 was Lauda again in 1977, flat 12.
Drivers title #10 was Scheckter in 1979, flat 12.
Drivers titles #11 through #15 by Schumacher, 2000-2004, powered by V10.
Drivers title #16 by Raikkonen in 2007, powered by V8.

Total Ferrari F1 driver championships by engine type:
4 cylinders - 2
6 cylinders - 3
8 cylinders - 3
10 cylinders - 5
12 cylinders - 3

Of the Ferrari F1 drivers championship winning cars, only 3 out of 16 were powered by 12 cylinder engines.

Again, Enzo was a hypocrite! All those 4, 6, 8, and 10 cylinder F1 Ferrari cars were produced and badged as Ferraris.