'Official' F12M Rumours and Launch

KERS/hybrid will be the direction, not turbos.

 

Watch the deposits fall away as it becomes clear that post N/A world will be even better and that there is not a quick buck in the F12M, beyond say year one.

Asset prices are skidding globally.

 

To a degree I think you are right. No quick buck probably beyond year 1 on the M I agree and one cannot help but feel the LE market generally is now becoming overhyped and a somewhat crowded space. Ferrari is also in the business of making money for Ferrari not for its clients.

Remember when new Testarossas and 328s were trading at vast premiums and what came next?

 

Hi Tim, please explain what came next?

I was still going to school back then

 

Market collapse!

 

Absolutely. Those regular production models were trading 2-4x list in 1989 if I remember correctly. In the short term, manufacturers can do well out of the overshoot. Launched during the boom, the eventual 1315 F40s vs the original plan of 399 made it the most profitable car to date at the time. For the buyer it can be a different story - having traded up to £1million (list price £160k), by 1994-5 the glut of cars in Europe took a zero off that figure.

This time around, as stated by Marchionne, we'll see more special series, with the focus on maximising the bottom line with limited incremental R&D costs by using existing platforms (TdF, 488VS, LaF-A etc).

 

I'm not saying that this or an element of this is not going to happen but the world is a very very different place today compared to then. The pool of people who want and can afford these cars is significantly larger and getting bigger as each year goes by. Marchionne is responding to the the depth of the market and increasing the variants accordingly. As long as the brand is able to churn out usable reliable cars the demand will remain relatively strong. Thirty years ago the cars were very niche and were not considered or able to be used as daily drivers, were very expensive to maintain and appealed to a much smaller demographic, hence the wild price swings when markets turned. In the big picture prices are far more stable today and the wild swings are being smoothed out, this doesn't mean that depreciation has disappeared but it is by and large a manageable and affordable element for most buyers. Ferrari has made an art out of understanding its clients and delivering a desirable product in numbers which remain slightly below the overall demand, as long as they are able to maintain that formula the overall picture should be fine.

 

All agreed but the variable that was not around then is rapid tech changes, young people spurning conspicuous consumption (in developed markets) and driverless and attendant chance for government to step in and "protect us from ourselves".

 

All agreed but other variables have also also changed. Back then it was just principally Ferrari with LE cars and the volume of cars produced was half that of today. Today you have Porsche, McLaren, Aston, Pagani, Koenigsegg, and others together with at least 100% production increase from Ferrari all in the same space. Just remember 599 GTO prices just a few years ago-that was closer to reality in my view.

 

+1


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Agreed. But the market is far bigger and the buyers tastes are different. I know someone who has put down a deposit for a AM RB001 and he hasn't bought any Ferraris as new from dealers. Different personal tastes. I've driven the McLarens and other than the P1 I'd rather have Ferraris product. As much as I like the new AM DB11 I would rather buy a Ferrari V12. Different products for different people.

Supercars are an emotional purchase and the same way the Gucci, Prada, Hermes et al can all exist - this is no different.

There are considerably more millionaires in the world now, and more geographically spread than ever before.

The fact is that whilst the sportscar market is declining, the supercar market is actually growing. And that why everyone's jumping in. It's either supercars or SUVs. That's where the growth is.


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Very good points on segmentation seems right

 

There suddenly seems to be no "new" spy shots. Does it mean all is good and under wraps until the reveal in Switzerland?

Like all threads, this is going off topic a lot. People in the know, spill more beans please.

 

If AM and RedBull deliver what they promised with that car, oh boy, they will shake hypercar segment really hard!

 

+1

 

Visited one of the dealers in the UK yesterday and asked to put a deposit down. I was flatly told that the order book was full, but I could get on the LussoT list first to see if any spots "open up" next year. Is this the deal even for regular production cars now?

 

Ferrari Will Unveil the F12 M at the 2017 Geneva Motor Show - Live Trading News

 

Is This What the New Ferrari F12M Will Look Like? - The Drive

 

It always amazes me how little most magazines seem to know and what a mine of information is to be found here.

 

Can someone please explain to me why on earth Ferrari would stick a TTV8 in the F12"M"?
I can see the point of the TT Lusso, but for the V12 flagship? That's just ridiculous. There's a V8 GT two seater, it's called the Cali T, (Yes yes, I know it has rear seats, but they are useless for human cargo)

 

No, no one can.

 

Even leaks probably need to be "cleared" by Ferrari before magazines risk printing them.

 

That's such a ridiculous proposition. They already have a front-engined TTV8 - it's called the California.


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Well, the direction is somewhat predictable since the company got overrun by bean-counters.

 

I do not believe a TT V8 will go into F12 "M" body.
Everything I have seen and heard suggests to me that the 2 seater V12 will be positioned as the "halo" model of the regular production cars.
I think the price of this model going forward may reflect this positioning as well !!!