'Official' F12M Rumours and Launch

Sounds like they will be worth attending.I believe UK Dealers have been given a range of dates.Some may already have decided on which dates they are going.

 

You guys realize you would be giving the same reasons why a V8 Lusso wouldn't make sense, if asked a couple days before it was introduced, don't you?

If they've done it with the Lusso, surely they've considered it for the F12M. If I had to bet I'd say they won't make a F8 but, make no mistake, the reasoning is the same than with the Lusso. And it would sell, no doubt. I love the V12, but as a (would be) new customer to the brand, I'd probably consider the cheaper V8 version, no doubt before the California.

 

No because the Lusso - Ferrari's current "populist" car along with the Cali T - is not comparable to Ferrari's symbolic V12 2-seater signature GT. Apples and oranges. Think perceived brand value and basic product differentiation strategy.

 

The last time I met one of the guys I know from the factory, he said "I must go now, before you start interrogating me and I tell everything!" - We we're in a bar at the time; and he's probably driven the car a mile or two by now if I know the chum right...

 

Would surprise me if the Bean Counter Company didn't manage to produce a handfull more M's than F12B's though... I would make the all proper binding deposits on secure cars as any dealer would have done, but certainly do my bid to secure more open deposits/agreements on the B-category buyers to. I don't need to be the one preaching to any of the clever people here (well, at least those that understand that no the V8 F12 is not imminent...), that the more commited clients you can present to the factory ($$$) the better - certainly on something where the "sky is the limit" production numbers wise. As one of the regional sales network managers always says to my local dealer after a meeting "Let's keep focus on the business" - naturally with a very Italian schwung over "Buzinezzzzz".

 

Perceived brand value and differentiation have taken a huge shot since the introduction of the Lusso T. They've done the unthinkable and will do it again if they see fit. Honestly what were your thoughts before they announced the Lusso T?

 

I like many others saw it coming years ago, and have always said it was a clever move. There is nothing "unthinkable" about making your most practical and conform product more available and approachable to boost volume. The only thing missing from the LussoT, which in my strict personal opinion just perhaps should have been made an option in certain markets, is 4RM. Then again, clear product differentation is important. The FF, which is the bloodline of the Lusso, is a car Ferrari boasted greatly about how this was a new approach in heightened listening and response to customer preferences - I mean just look at the leap from the 612 (and the increase in volume...) That makes it and its successors moreso a California than F12. The classic 2+2 Ferrari formula ended with 612. The FF and Lusso are a new thing where the rulebook of what is and what isn't is a whole lot more fluid.

What makes you say the way Ferrari's brand value is perceived among its customers has taken a "huge shot" since LussoT? Quite a bold statement, I'd be interesed in hearing your reasoning behind it.

 

I don't see the perceived value of Ferrari taking a hit due to the GTC4-T. I think if anything the greater risk was the 2009 California. And it seems Ferrari's brand is stronger today...

Anyway, I think Ferrari is a beneficiary of having products at the top of the luxury market. It strikes me as a little counter intuitive as the tippy top used to be more volatile. But now, it seems its more stable. I think thats because these are really not sports cars any more. They have evolved into being supercars, at least in the case of the Extreme Sports Cars in Ferrari's grid (below).

As to the future, its so hard to predict.

Ferrari has the following product matrix, and many are their words from their own slides (but from my memory!):

GT Cars:
V12: GTC4
V8: California T, GTC4-T

Extreme Sports Cars:
V12: F12
V8: 488GTB/ Spider/ VS (like the Scuderia and Speciale)

Limited Edition Cars:
V8: (presumably) 488 VS Aperta
V12: F12tdf

Supercars:
LaFerrari, LaFerrari Aperta

And of course then we have the ultra limited series like the just announced J50 and the F60 America.

If Ferrari was simply a typical car company then downsizing and turbo makes a lot of sense. But it is clearly not, it is something very special and its clients understand and expect that.

In each category they have V8 and V12 entrants, but there is no doubt the V12 is Ferrari's strongest lineage. And thus, the F12, Extreme Sports is the flagship of the production models.

They've almost always had a 4 seater V12, and many appreciate the extra seats. I agree with MisterMaranello that the FF altered the 4 seater trajectory as its even less of a sports car with 4 seats. Now its more super car with 4 seats and that means different rules. Integrating the AWD could have been considered near blasphemy, but Ferrari came up with an innovative solution (4RM) and kept the car very much a Ferrari. The GTC4-T is a smart move designed to widen the appeal of this model.

The F12 doesn't really need a wider appeal. Even now, late in its product cycle, they still have lists of people willing to buy a new one. So I can't see them doing a "F12M, 8 Cylinder" model in the mold of the GTC4-T. I would also point out that the GTC-4 has the 4RM system to differentiate it from the GTC4-T. They don't have that with the F12 (currently). This just crosses my mind: wouldn't it be quite a wrinkle if they introduced a V8 turbo F12 with a variation of the 4RM system?! I bet they won't, I just had this cute thought thats all..

Of course, many of us are just enthusiasts, we don't know, we can just speculate, which is fun. Personally I would not be interested. FWIW, my dealer said they have very high demand for the F12M. But that's always the case. I think the real test is when the car is nearing the end of its production cycle. Will it have strong demand like the F12? Time will tell.

 

Australia/New Zealand I think starts January 26 for a week - at least that's what I was told I should book flights for. As I understand it the presentation is in Maranello with group sizes of around 6 clients. Got this last week directly from main Asia/Pacific Ferrari guys.

 

I think as long as think F12M is available as a focused naturally aspirating V12 Ferrari sportscar in the world we live in today and for years to come - the demand will be high. Possibly even higher in years to come as the list of other options gradually shortens, DB11 as we all know went turbo and now has an interior with its bits taken from the Mercedes in which you last took an Uber ride in. See other cars going same route, more common parts being shared and FI powerplant. Fortunately Ferrari has gone away from the period where using rebadged bits for their interior seemed like a good idea, and although the quality of the leather in the Lusso feels like a step down from the FF, the electronics certainly do the job. I am quite sure (speculation) that F12M will truly be the last GT iteration of the unasissted V12 without any KERS or hybrid system - although to my knowledge not confirmed or verified by anyone, the consesus seems to agree on it.

 

I agree with you, but the prior DBs had some interior bits from Volvo (nav system). I don't think that mattered.

For me the F12b has an important "last"- its the last PF designed front engine V12. (OK at least partially designed, I believe PF did the front and the Ferrari Design Center did the rear)...

 

How do we think the F12m's value will be percieved by the market. Do we think that used cars will trade for a premium or is this ' waiting list game' just a scam to get customers to commit?
I'm debating with myself to put a deposit down so early....

 

Personally, in UK, if there is a premium it will be very short lived. We also expect to see a price rise which will mean most cars will be well over 300k gbp (how much we will see) . Both Lusso and F12M orders appear very strong though. Time will tell, there is enough uncertainty around that it could go puff overnight. Still think a nice F12B is a good place to put your money.

 

f12m test mule ditches its jacket...
photo Ludovic munchon
https://scontent-sin6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15493845_851293294973872_1087829778709767248_o.jpg?oh=e41cfc113344842d2899139a7df0ec1a&oe=58E704F6

 

Well, since I'm not on the top of preferrd customers list, I might have to wait until 2019/2020 to get an allocation. Hence why I might opt for an very early used one. I don't see myself ordering a car almost 3 years in advance.

 

The new Aventador S is, for a lambo, a definite upgrade from the current model. Some very nice touches to previous models.
This Aventador S also makes it painfully Obvious that Lambo is looking for every model they launch at what Ferrari is doing. Just shows that they are very much behind the market.

 

Am I correct in saying the aero bridge is gone. Some interesting aero happening behind the front wheel arch.

Also, the exhaust pipes appear to be framed like in the TdF


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I think there is still some "padding" under the wrapping around the rear haunches, so not definitive yet.

I see the evidence of a vent behind the rear wheel-well, similarly located as on my sketch.

Also, I think there will be the evolution of the aero bridge using the upper vent in the front fender, as I drew. Covered up on the mule here.

Despite the vent exit in the front fender being covered up, the side flanks design seems to align very well with my sketch ;-) Compare and contrast:
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I think it looks ugly lol I wonder what the new F12M will look like. It makes me a bit nervous because I love the standard Berlinetta so much.

 

I have a Berlinetta on order but i'm still excited as I would like an F12M in two years. I'm beginning to think it will look great.

 

However agressive Lamborghini will style the Aventador, how stylish Ferrari will design the F12M. Both cars co-exist for a reason.

 

I'm not nervous at all for the F12M.
I really hope it will look like Ingenere's sublime scetch as too me it's the perfect example of old skool style with 2017 new age design.

 

I call it a softer TDF