355F1 Gearchange Problem

Now that is an interesting story.

A few weeks ago my car did something that sounds similar and it has had my mechanic and I scratching our heads ever since.
I was in stop-start traffic cruising slowly in fourth, and when I went to change down in order to stop yet again the gear indicator started to flash (it flashed "4") but the car basically went into neutral. There was nothing I could do except coast to a stop on the side of the road. Nothing I did with the paddles changed anything. It just kept sitting there with "4" flashing.
In the end I turned everything off, sat there for a few minutes then started up again and drove off. However it did the exact same thing next time I got into 4th and went to change down.
The mechanic has had the car since and has checked virtually everything, flushed the system etc. I'm picking it up tomorrow as he hasn't been able to replicate what happened.

Does this sound like what you experienced, and if so does that mean it may be the F1 pump becoming heat soaked?

It's never done anything like this before in the 5+ years I've had it.

 

I hate to say it sounds exactly the same. But before I scare you with potentially needing a new pump assembly, my 612 did the same thing, but in its case Ferrari had to do something to "recalibrate/resync" the f1 shift points.... Or something weird like that. Never had the problem again out of the 612, but this car.... It was definitely a failing pump assembly, as it only happened in stop n go traffic. As long as it was moving there was never an issue.

 

A re-synch will help any system. In an F1 car, the last thing you want to do is shut the car off while it is moving. It throws the sensors off and will cause gear selection issues.

With the car parked and the key off do the following:

1. Place foot on brake and hold it.
2. Turn key to position II but do not start car...wait 10 seconds
3. With foot on brake, turn key off...wait 10 seconds
4. With foot still on brake, start the car.
5. Sensors should now be reset.

I have a 360 pump on my car that started acting up as described as "heat soak". I just ordered the electric motor and swapped it out in my garage. No issues.

I took the old motor apart and the springs for the brushes were broken. I bought some $2 springs and replaced them and it appears fine now. All of this for a different thread

 

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I'm going to try this tomorrow. Will report back.

 

Today I carried out the procedure as described above by Watson, then went for a short drive (about 15-20 minutes).

The car worked flawlessly. I went up and down the box several times with no issues, up to about 55mph, a little bit of stop-start traffic, but nothing that would have really heated it up too much.

I still don't have the confidence to go on a long drive, but it's a good start.
Pity there is no indication from the car that a re-set has been successfully performed (flashing lights or whatever).

 

Good news. I hope this is all that is wrong. For me, 15-20 minutes wasn't a long enough drive to become heat soaked. And again, the pump would never become heat soaked unless the car was mostly at idle with no movement.

To test further, I would go for a 30 minute, spirited drive. Then come back home and perform stop and go around your neighborhood (if your neighborhood is conducive to do so)... if not back and forth in your driveway for another 15 minutes or so.

Then at that, if you're having really cold weather, the pump may not become heat soaked regardless. My issues were only when ambient temperatures were in the 50's and up, but by the looks of your profile, I don't think cold weather will affect your testing

 

We are waaay off topic.

It could very well be the electric motor as well as the re-synch. If it is $500 replaces it. The actual pump assy most likely will not need replacement.

I'll get to a 360 F1 motor thread in a bit.

 

We are . Stemmed from the fact that the OP turned out to be a car I owned... then I listed what was wrong with it which tied to the discussion about the sale price.

Now.... About the pump... IF it ends up being a failing pump Motor, the Motor isn't available to replace that I know of. It would be cheaper to convert to a 360 pump assembly.

 

Converting to a 360 pump set-up is a bit like fixing headers and valve guides. It will need to be done.

There are several options on how to do it. I suspect the most publicly "approved" way is through the Hill conversion kit supplied by Ricambi.

My car had one of the very first 360 pump conversions ever done and it worked, but was plumbed poorly. During the major I pulled it all apart and re-did it with that kit.

The beauty of the 360 pump is it is external to the solenoid system. It is also a two piece unit so if the electric motor fails (heat soak - brush springs cracked) you can remove the electric motor from the installed pump and add a new one without compromising the hydraulic side of the system.

 

I know this is way off topic (if anyone has made the mistake of venturing into the Oz section you'll know this is normal) and that certainly wasn't my intention.

I'm happy if this "deviation" gets moved somewhere else, but for now...
I really appreciate the help you guys have given.

What I would say is that last time my car played up it definitely wasn't due to heat soak.
I had dinner at a pub in the city and when I got in and started it up - it was cold - the gear display was flashing in every gear, straight away (even "R").
It "failed" several times within 10 minutes or so and required me to shut the car down, wait, and then re-start.

I finally got it home and hadn't even tried to start it again before today, when I carried out Watsons procedure.

Tomorrow I'll drive it to work, which is a 30-40 minute drive in city traffic.

I'll either post pics of the car on the side of the road, or of it sitting in the car park at work.
Hopefully the latter.

 

I hope for the latter as well

 

Thanks, but it was not to be.

The next day I set out to drive it to work. The first part is on a freeway, so 55mph for 10 minutes or so. Everything was going well.

But at the very first set of traffic lights I had to slow down for, once I got down to 2nd it would go no further. "2" started flashing on the display, nothing I did with the paddles had any effect, the engine sounded like a bucket of bolts (CEL light on) and again I had to shut everything down, wait 30 seconds and re-start.

I drove it home and went to work in my other car.

 

Whoa. You got something else going on there. Throw out bearing perhaps? Does that trigger a CEL? I don't think it does.

Sorry dude.

 

Something else is also wrong if you're throwing a CEL. Not even a bad F1 sensor will throw a cell (and my F355... the one featured in this Barrett Jackson video suffered a bad sensor as well). You should only get he flashing transmission light. I swear your symptoms are the same as mine when the pump was failing. But just in case....

My F1 sensor failed once because the thrust-bearing seal was leaking fluid and fouling the sensor. Check the transmission around the clutch inspection plate to see if it is wet. Remove the plate if you have to and see if it is wet with fluid in there. If so, the thrust bearing seal is probably gone and you'll need a new thrust bearing and possible a new F1 sensor.

 

Thanks guys. I should point out that the engine only sounds strange after the failure occurs.
In all other driving (eg. when I drove all the way back home) it is normal and runs very sweet.
So the "bag of bolts" is only for a few seconds after I've coasted to a stop. As soon as I shut down and re-start it runs beautifully.

Quick question: is the "thrust bearing" the same as the "clutch release bearing"?

I found this Hill Engineering part which may be what you're referring to?

CRB-355F1-S - 355 F1 - OEM seals (#170182) by: Hill Engineering - Hill

 

Yep. And the Hill unit is what I used. Much better part than OEM.

But check the clutch inspection plate to see if it's wet with fluid first, though I suspect that your technician would certainly have checked this already.

 

Ok. I'll pass this information on, thanks Nicholas.

 

OK, with a little bit of luck and some magic from the mods, my "diversion" from the Barrett Jackson thread will soon appear here and make more sense on its own.

I wanted to update, mainly to thank those who have contributed.

In particular, Nicholas, because word from my mechanic yesterday is that his suggestion of what to look for has turned out to be exactly right.
The thrust bearing (or clutch release bearing) was covered in a lot of fluid when they inspected it. As a result I've ordered a new one from Hill Engineering and the plan is to replace that and the sensor, clean it all up and see what happens.

I'm optimistic that this may finally prove to be the solution to a frustrating problem, so fingers crossed!

 

So the fluid was brake fluid mate? If it was,the reservoir would be low..

 

The manual cars share the same brake fluid and reservoir for clutch and brakes. On the F1, a separate reservior and fluid is used (not shared by brakes)

 

In any case the reservoir would be low or empty.... I have a feeling this is not the problem. something is leaking sure,but the..... sounds like a bucket of bolts quote... the tech would have said the release bearing has failed, rather than just being covered in fluid..

 

Ah. I probably explained poorly.

The something-or-other was covered in fluid because the release bearing has failed.
This fluid interferes with the (F1?) sensor and the clutch (?) and causes the symptoms I experienced.

Hopefully this will make more sense when the other parts of the thread appear, but the hope is that replacing the failed bearing and the sensor will fix the problem.

 

Frontline and Mike Moore...now there's a blast from the past. Now life now sadly imitates art.

 

Mate i hope this is a leaking release bearing.. Check your pump as a failed accumulator will cause the pump to run to provide the pressure to change gears. The pumps job is simply to keep the accum full. failed acccumulator will finish the pump in short order..

 

It's definitely not the accumulator. The mechanic changed that and it made no difference.