The FXX K Thread

Have you seen this or not - it is a one great POV video.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLsVrLOKOq4[/ame]

 

Yes y seen some day ago, its beautiful POV

 

Okay, I know @ChalStrad visits this thread, but I wanted to know something about the XX program. Is what Salmon said during this video true about the XX program?
https://youtu.be/LoBdF3r2yi8?t=5m51s

 

The fellow in the video is such an ignorant person, that I actually was not able to watch it to the end, so I am not sure what he said about the XX programmes.....

 

Hahaha
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i can't agree with you more.
in my opinion absolutely juvenile attitude and annoying narrative.

massive attention seeker at his best.

 

That said, if you have a question about the XX program which can be provided in text, there are at least two of us here who can probably answer it 🙂

 

Hehe, yeah, sorry 'bout that. I forgot that you, Greg.23, and Chalstrad are XX programe users. So if you've seen the video, whats your take on it?

 

Treynor thanks for putting us back on track

- Do Ferrari warehouses and ships the FXXK cars just like they do for F1 Clienti cars?
- Are the mechanics working on the F1 Clienti cars the same than on the FXXK / 599XX?
- How did you graduate (on a driver skill level) to an XX/F1 Client car?
- Do you have an "Engineer" per car like F1 pilots you can share your impressions about the car live for then mechanics to adjust?
- Per car, how many men to support it during a week end?
- Interesting to see many 599XXEvo on the track at Daytona.
Do you guys consider the 599XX the "entry level" XX car? if so, is the 599XX(Evo) faster and superior to the FXX? I'm surprised Enzos disappeared to be replaced by FXXK but not 599XXEvos.
- Chalstrad tracks FXXK + F1 + 333SP: how exhausting is that? (!!!)
I assume the idea is to make sure you make the most of your track week end.
- How hard is the "second hand" market in the XX and F1Clienti?
I would assume most FXX are now retired? F1 easy to resell? Does Ferrari helps reselling F1 or XX to other potential clients?

- The performance of the cars, vehicles, logistic and support are so impressive, I can't help wondering about this other important parameter: how much does it cost (exclu. travel expense, accommodation...) to have an FXXK shipped, taken car of, supplied, .... during a 4 day week end like Daytona?
Lots of fantasy about that, the "word on the street" being that it costs 150k per day and per car.

- Can you get Ferrari to arrange "private test" week ends (team support, shipping..) for you only should you be willing to track your XX/F1 Clienti cars on your own say on XYZ track you would have rented for yourself?

 

Ok, if you haven't seen the video, basically imo, he's bashing ferrari for no good reason or he's just misunderstanding a crap ton of things about them.

1. He claims the upcoming Merc hypercar is going to be taking things from their F1 program, much like they used to do. Then he say ferrari also claims that they do the same thing but with the XX cars and he calls BS on them. Is that true?

2. Then he claims that ferrari is no longer "Ferrari", now McLaren is the new "ferrari". He claims that mclaren is a more innovative company and they make faster and better cars and ferrari aren't making race cars anymore. He claims ferrari is the new "Aston Martin", since their current lineup of cars are luxurious, contained, and are GT cars.

3. Then he goes on to compare the sound of the 488 vs the 458. Im not going to argue with that one much since owners are also saying that it sounds a fair bit more muted, but the way he's saying it, makes it sounds like its a turbo s.

4. Then he says that ferrari are all over the market place and don't have a set direction and are copying mclaren. He said that the 458 speciale compared to 675LT, and then says that ferrari saw that since the speciale lost to the LT, they decided to go and make the 488. But now withe 720s coming out, ferrari are going to be lost on that one again. He's comparing the 488 and f12 against the entire macca lineup and saying that ferrari's gone too much GT and don't know where to go.

5. Then he brings up that old myth of ferrari forcing you to buy a cali T before you can buy a 488 or their other higher-up models.

6. I don't think this was mentioned in this video particular, but I think he did mention it during his little drive around the town, how ferrari and lambo are no longer innovating as much as macca and Porsche. IMO, any who has properly studied lambo will know that their innovation lies in their carbon fiber.

What do you say about salmon's opinions?

 

I'd say Chalstrad was correct, one could have saved a good deal of time by simply skipping the video A quick once-over concludes that -none- of the points you list above is accurate.

 

> Do Ferrari warehouses and ships the FXXK cars just like they do for F1 Clienti cars?

They offer it as a service, and they make it convenient and economical to do so. There is no obligation to use their services however; we're free to do our own storage and logistics.

> Are the mechanics working on the F1 Clienti cars the same than on the FXXK / 599XX?

That I do not know.

> How did you graduate (on a driver skill level) to an XX/F1 Client car?

The 599XX was the first race car I've ever owned, and both my wife Christine and I were enthusiast-level drivers who had never driven a real GT car when we joined the program. It was a hell of a learning curve for the first couple years, to be sure, but neither of us crashed and we had a wonderful time. Both the 599XX and the FXX-K have stability control settings which make it possible for even inexperienced drivers to get the cars around the track at a decent clip, and the XX program put instructors in our passenger seat to help us stay out of trouble.

> Do you have an "Engineer" per car like F1 pilots you can share your impressions about the car live for then mechanics to adjust?

Yes, each XX car gets an engineer for each event. In addition there's a pool of engineers and more senior folk that they'll pull in for questions or tweaks.

> Per car, how many men to support it during a week end?

For XX's, one engineer per car plus a common pool of perhaps 5-10 depending on event size, plus 3-6 instructors.

> Interesting to see many 599XXEvo on the track at Daytona.
Do you guys consider the 599XX the "entry level" XX car? if so, is the 599XX(Evo) faster and superior to the FXX? I'm surprised Enzos disappeared to be replaced by FXXK but not 599XXEvos.

I don't hear anyone referring to these cars as 'entry level' . As a practical matter, a few FXXs and 599XXs are available on the secondary market, while the FXX-K is not, so you see new program entrants driving those two cars. Frankly, of the three the FXX-K is the easiest to drive.

> Chalstrad tracks FXXK + F1 + 333SP: how exhausting is that? (!!!)

He's the real deal but you'll have to ask him how he manages three such different cars. I had a difficult time just swapping between my 599XX and my 488GT3 at Homestead.

> How hard is the "second hand" market in the XX and F1Clienti?

I've seen a few XX cars on the secondary market over the last couple years. I've never seen an F1 car; I am led to believe the common way to get an F1 car is to talk to Ferrari and have them do some inquiries on your behalf, but I have no direct experience.

> I would assume most FXX are now retired? F1 easy to resell? Does Ferrari helps reselling F1 or XX to other potential clients?

I still see a handful of FXX's on track at events. I do not know how hard these cars are to resell; I've no intention of selling either of ours!


> The performance of the cars, vehicles, logistic and support are so impressive, I can't help wondering about this other important parameter: how much does it cost (exclu. travel expense, accommodation...) to have an FXXK shipped, taken car of, supplied, .... during a 4 day week end like Daytona?
Lots of fantasy about that, the "word on the street" being that it costs 150k per day and per car.

Pfffft. One of the things that I really like about the XX program is that Ferrari doesn't take advantage of the situation and charge absurd prices. Roughly speaking the prices are similar to or lower than those you'd pay a race team for support on a race weekend in GT car (GT3 / Cup / ...):

Event: ~$7K / car (covers entry, hotel for 2 people, shuttle service, mechanic, support, fuel, instruction & telemetry, hospitality, food, evening event)
Logistics: varies by distance, for example ~$5K for Maranello --> Hockenheim --> Maranello.
Supplies: fuel is covered in the event fee. 599XX tires are $4K/set for Pirelli DH slicks, which last 250km of track driving. Brake pads are ~$1K / axle and typically last two sets of tires (F) or three sets (R). The FXX-K costs are similar.

My total for Hockenheim in the 599XX thus was event entry + logistics + 2 sets tires + 1 set brake pads, or $22K for 3 days of driving. That's under $8K / day -- come to think of it, that's substantially less than running a GT car at a practice day.

Like I said earlier, this was one of the things which made me like Ferrari more. They could get away with charging higher event prices since we're a captive audience -- but they don't.

> Can you get Ferrari to arrange "private test" week ends (team support, shipping..) for you only should you be willing to track your XX/F1 Clienti cars on your own say on XYZ track you would have rented for yourself?

Absolutely. We've done this several times at Fiorano, for example.

 

Hmm, so two owners are saying the same thing about the XX programs. By the way, my brain is a bit groggy at the current time, but what do you mean when you say that " a quick once-over that none of the points above are accurate"?

 

I mean that I do not believe any of the points which you attribute to the video are factually correct. Or, put simply, it's all BS.

 

Did you actually watch the video? I will admit, I did paraphrase some of the quotes since that would have been too much to write, but in general, thats what he was saying or hinting at.

 

Great thread - imo, the folks in the XX Programme are living a Ferrari dream. The show that the FXXKs put on at Daytona was really impressive! A few of my shots:
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Treynor, thanks for your rare insight and shared info.

I assume you are a rare case of starting your "racing career" with an XX but it is great to know that the team and car settings make it approachable enough for amateurs more on the beginner side (even if you are slower), and safe for the other drivers on the track.
I guess instead of graduating to a better car you graduate to "purer" settings and better performance.

I'm happy to see Ferrari actually lets you run and transport your XX if you like, and that the cost are not sky high as I though.

Maybe F1, with the maintenance and parts comes to a much higher average cost per day at the end of the year.

 

Honestly, this video for me needs to be taken for what it is: just someones opinions. I understand his point. Ferrari used to be all about extreme performance and being the best at everything. I genuinely believe that if the LaF and XX-K didn't have the electric motor and the batteries all the saved weight would make the car faster.

Regarding the 488, it is a beast, I think it is as fast if not faster in certain tracks than the LaF. Ferrari did an excellent job in doing a car that even being a turbo sounds good. Having said this I would still take a 458 over a 488...

I think Ben answered very well on these. Let me just fill in the gaps for the F1 questions.

The F1 support teams are different from the XX simply because the F1 requires a completely different know how than the XX cars do. Ex Scuderia F1 Team mechanics and engineer join the F1 clienti and XX programs once they are tiered of traveling with the F1 team usually.

The 599XX I don't see it as an entry level XX, just a different car compared to the others. Very fun and very hard car to drive fast, definitely a car that teaches a lot!

Regarding resale, yes Ferrari has an XX and F1 pre-owned program and helps the customers sell them very efficiently. At the moment the market is very hot, almost no XX cars on the market.

Yes you can definitely arrange private tests with both the XX and F1, both in Fiorano and in other tracks.

Regarding costs it is way less than 150k a day. More like about 7-10k a day based on location of the track and how much brake pads and tires you use for the XX and about 30% more for an F1. However an F1 needs an engine and gearbox rebuild every 1k-2k kms based on the year (around 300-400k for both, maybe take 4 months) while the XX every 5000kms (around 80k for engine and gearbox, up to 1 month). Ferrari could have charged way more like Ben said but they don't simply because they can afford to do it.

 

Respectfully, I disagree. Ferrari was at pains to explain that the KERS system added more in terms of power and laptimes than it compounded in terms of weight. A LF minus the KERS system would be slower. A LF with the same power (963 CV) withouth KERS might be faster, but that would require a bigger engine or, heave forbid, turbocharging.

It would need to be a very slow track in order for the 488 to be anywhere close to the LF. The LF's huge power and aero advantages would decimate the 458 on a fast track like Monza or Spa.

 

A very well driven FXXK will be about a fast as a 488 GT3 (depending on the track) - but while the K is easy to drive fast it is much more complicated to take consistently to the limit. Even at high speed tracks.
But all of this is comparing apples and oranges. The GT3/GTE cars are built according to specific racing rules and regulations. The XX cars are laboratories for the development of new ideas. The interesting thing is that an XX allows a gentleman driver to discover the joy of driving an exceptional car with no limits in complete safety. A GT3/GTE is à racing car pure and simple . To be honest, I am very quick in an FXXK but I am only a decent amateur when I get into a GT3/GTE to race compared to the pros. I know it, doesn't stop me from trying and improving...that's why I am waking up this morning at Daytona for the Roar before the 24.....

 

I understand what you are saying sir. I was referring to a LF vs a 488 though, both in road car form.

 

Treynor, Greg23, Chalstrad, you gentlemen make this thread absolutely fascinating. Thanks a lot for your insight.

 

Ok. But then where? On a race track, on the road? On a race track we know the LaF is significantly quicker (Fiorano in under 1'19")
On the road I assure you nothing comes close....

 

Totally quote OneD. Thank you so much guys!