Highest Price Ever Paid for F430 6-spd Gated MT

I started a thread a while back called the 430 6mt market price thread or something like that. Lots of actual transactions. Frankly, I saw two additional transactions that are not on the thread and when I have a moment I will ask those involved in the transaction to post. From watcHing the mentioned thread, and talking with those who decided to post, in addition to the car with the reptile interior, I am only aware of two other cars that sold above 200k. Both were low 200's, very low miles, very clean and transactions where over a year ago. Your basic well maintained, well optioned 10 - 20k mile car, IN MY OPINION BASED ON THE DATA I HAVE SEEN, is a car in the upper 100's ($185-195k). Higher mileage cars or cars with issues are still well north of Usd 150k. I see a lot of very high asks (north of 220k) but am have not heard from a buyer or seller that transacted at this level (except the reptile car). This does not mean it did not happen, just I have been watching the market and hunting people down (part curiosity Nc part to know where to set my agreed value). Also, the two cars I mention above were very low mileage pristine cars. Happy hunting.

 

Here is the market price thread I mention in the post above. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/498847-430-6mt-market-price-thread.html

 

For the 430 manual, the best we can do is make educated estimates of total production numbers based off some numbers that are known. It seems to be pretty well accepted that about 10% of total 430 production were manual transmission cars. Some countries like the UK were slightly higher (actual UK numbers are available) but that makes sense as in general manual transmissions are more popular there than in the US. Other countries were said to be lower, and as you have found, some believe the overall number is less than 10%, but for simplicity let's say 10%.

Since there are no official numbers in terms of total 430 production, you have to use what is available. Production numbers state 16,379 360's total (both coupe and spider combined). It is reasonable to think 430 production was similar, possibly higher. Another excellent data point is the UK actual numbers for all 430's which is 1,835 (total for F1 and manual coupes and spiders). The UK historically represents about 10% of total Ferrari production. Both of these numbers point to an educated estimate of 18,000 total 430's with a perhaps a 50/50 split between coupe and spiders.

Using 10% this would indicate approximately 900 Manual F430 coupes worldwide, and around 900 Manual 430 spiders. The US typically represents about 30% of worldwide volume, so I think there would not be more than 270 manual F430 coupes, and 270 manual F430 spiders in the US. Again, this is an educated estimate, but this seems to be the best approach for the 430 manual.

As a comparison with the most rare modern V8s, there were 1,288 total 360 Challenge Stradales worldwide and 378 for North America (coupe only of course). The 430 16M was limited to 499 (spider only).

 

Just a couple of comments. I don't know about worldwide, but in the US, there are far more spiders than coupes. It's also likely that the percentage of 430 coupes is much lower than 360s since 360s were coupe only for the first two years.

It is well known that the UK took a higher percentage of manuals than other countries. The Brits love their sticks.

Small anecdotal evidence: when I made a deposit for a 3 pedal coupe in 2002, the dealer already had 80 orders for what would be the 430. I was the first one who ordered a stick. The breakdown at the time was 20 coupes and 60 spiders. I do know they delivered 3 coupes with sticks and at least one customer who wanted one went without. They also delivered at least one spider, probably more.

Although it may not be an accurate reflection of production numbers, the number of 3 pedal 430s for sale as a percentage of the total is far less than 10%

I don't claim to know the market, but my gut feeling is that my 2005 with 27K on it is worth 50-60K more than a comparable F1.

Dave

 

Here are the UK RHD numbers for some other Ferraris with gated/F1 options:

575M: 69 gated/182 F1
575 Superamerica: 5 gated/57 F1
360 Modena: 352 gated/702F1
360 Spider: 478 gated/512 F1

California (V8, naturally aspirated): 1 gated/ n/a F1

 

Thanks so much for this link to your previous thread, as I had read it before but was unable to find my way back to it when I wanted to re-read it.

johnfe

 

You really posted some very helpful information here, and I agree with your well thought out methodology. Having said that, would you happen to have any insight into how these overall numbers impacted the various model years model years 2005~2009, as I have seen more 2005, 2006, and 2007's on the market more than anything else, as you rarely see any 2008's or 2009's. And wasn't the 2009 year of production only a partial year?

Thanks again,

johnfe

 

OK, so if I take your gut feeling and apply it to this particular listing a 2009 Ferrari F430 Spider F1 Transmission with (2,040) 'very low mileage' also last year made well optioned and super clean which is currently listed for $160,000.00 and add $60,000.00 (your higher amount) that would put the price at $220,000.00.

Therefore, since this is a very low mileage vehicle and a 2009, one could easily assert that all other listings over and above $220,000.00 are simply overpriced at this time, would you not agree with this assertion? Or would my comparison be inaccurate since you are basing your figure on a car with 27K on it's clock? But I guess that really shouldn't effect the Delta should it? The way I interpret this is your gut feeling just set the current highest price one should pay for this vehicle, and no more.

Aldous Voice contends that the biggest driver in setting the price of these vehicles is the mileage, that may be true in the UK, but is that the case for everywhere else?? He also seems to assert the model year plays a very small role, so does everyone on this forum agree with his 2 assertions?

Thanks so much for your input,

johnfe

 

I am currently selling a 2005 430 spider 6mt 6700 miles, the car is listed at 225,900 if you have interest feel free to pm me. The car is Argento and black, we might've spoken in the past... Thanks Lonnie

 

My dealer gave me exactly the same advice back in '08 when I order my 430 Spider and wanted a manual (warned me about resale value etc etc)..... I stuck to my manual as this is what I wanted....

 

As I said, it's all gut feeling. The key question is whether or not a premium should be expressed as an amount (50-60K) or a percentage, say 50% which would make the later, low mileage cars more. I don't have the answer. You are right that most manuals were made early on. By 2008, Scuds dominated sales.

Good luck finding a car in any event.

Dave

 

In the long run, gated and condition and originality (and mileage in the medium run) will affect price more than the model year.

Right now, a late gate 430 will ask a percentage premium over a same age F1 that is bigger in numerical terms than an early gate v F1. That difference will disappear as old/classic car rules take hold. At least til they stop selling fuel.

 

Hello Lonnie,

No I don't believe we have ever communicated with each other, I will PM you shortly so please look for it.

Thanks,

johnfe

 

To Ken458:

Yes, I have heard that the winter months are the best time to buy so your points well taken! Currently I'm trying not to pay a 'crazy' price. On that note, since I've read you own a 2009 Ferrari F430 Spider 6-Speed Manual Gated Transmission vehicle I sent you a PM with some questions, did you ever receive it?

Thanks,

johnfe

 

But when one considers that the late model 2008's and 2009's had the improved exhaust headers already fitted, making them less vulnerable to cracking, and they came standard with the Carbon Ceramic Brakes, wouldn't that count for something and be thought of as being desirable?
I've always thought the old adage was when collecting the classic cars that it was the beginning of the series and the end of the series that were the most valuable cars. Or doesn't that necessarily hold true with the Ferrari's?

But if I understand you correctly, your point is for now that would hold true, but as time goes on that % would lesson, is that correct?

Thanks,

johnfe

 

It's a soft market across the board right now with all models.
My friend on here practically gave away his 458 last month just to get a deal done.
I don't plan on selling my 430 6MT till this summer. If you are a buying now then find a good car. You can be picky. It's a buyers market now. Good luck

 

Thanks for the well wishes, to say it's been a challenge would be an understatement. I know everyone expects prices to rise in the spring and peak in the summer and I guess they traditionally do. However, I have noted that Ferrari's seem to move more like bond investments than equities, because they're a safer asset, like a fixed income. It appears when the Equity Market is doing poorly the Ferrari prices generally rise, and conversely when the Equity Market is more Bullish, people with money would rather have their money invested in the Market making money, than parking it in a garage. Just saying....
However, it's hard to predict what will happen in the future.

Thank so much for your input,

johnfe

 

I increased the Insurance on my 430 spider gated 6 speed.....Insurance company wanted a invoice of a recently SOLD 430 manual to justify the increase....A dealer sent me a copy, with owners name blacked out...It SOLD for 230,000.00.....about 6 months ago. and it was a 2007 car....mine is a 2008 .....they insured it for 200K.....they wouldn't go over that....(Leland west)...but the premium was 1000.00 less than what I was getting from Hagerty for only 150K insurance......

 

Very interesting information, thanks for sharing. Well to me that sets a 'High Water Mark,' paid for this vehicle. As I mentioned earlier I recently found a 2009 Ferrari F430 Spider F1 Transmission Red exterior Tan interior, above average optioned, very clean, with very low mileage (2,040), asking $160,000.00. So I would have to ask myself would I really enjoy the stick shift $70,000.00 more than the F1 Transmission? I personally feel the car with the sticks have plateaued at this time and will go down some before taking a leap higher, as in the UK, January 2017 comparable mileage price Delta is $46,000.00.
What makes this more difficult is when some dealers go to the extreme and set that price Delta at $130,000.00~$140,000.00, which probably does more harm than good.

Thanks so very much for your input, very helpful!

johnfe

 

Not too long ago Ferrari of Central NJ sold a red/tan coupe under 10K miles for $235K.

Another red/tan coupe with similar low mileage sold for $240K but I would have to dig around to find out by whom - but I do remember this.

Full disclosure: I have a pristine red/tan coupe manual with 7K miles -- and there's no way I'd let it go for under $200K. Be careful when using the word "market."

The "market" is what sellers say it is when the supply is very very limited and the demand is high. Dealers would scoop up manual transmission 430s in a heartbeat if they could locate them; but these cars are in hiding because everyone knows they are going up in value.

 

Exactly. It takes two to make a sale. If sellers won't sell for less than X and buyers won't buy for more than Y, the value is not Y. It's whatever price they meet at - whenever that happens.

 

I have kept a very close eye on the 430 manual market for a while and below are the numbers for the cars I have noted. What percentage this is of total 430 Manual US cars nobody knows.

A couple of important points. The numbers below are for 430 Manual Coupes only. Also, this info is for US cars only.

2005- 31
2006- 25
2007- 15
2008- 9
2009- 3

So as you can see the vast majority of cars were 2005 and 2006, with a step down in 2007, and then very few in 2008 and 2009. This may be as somebody said earlier due to Scuderia production in 2008/09.

 

Dear 348SStb,

First of all thanks so much for these prices as this was precisely the information I was hoping to extract. Regarding the 2 cars, what year was the one that sold for $235K, what year was the one that sold for $240K, and what is the year of yours with 7K on it's clock, as this will give me a greater perspective?

Also, please understand I'm not questioning the veracity of your statements, but considering the fact you are stating the highest prices I'm aware of that have been paid for these vehicles at this present time, on what basis do you believe the 'sold pricing information' is absolutely true and correct? I only ask this because this information may very well be the basis upon which I'll make my decision to finalize an offer.

Lastly, I've read that the Coupe in the Ferrari 360's are considered to be more valuable than the Spiders in the Ferrari 360's, and therefore command a higher price. Is this considered to be the case with the Ferrari F430's as well?

Thanks so much for your input,

johnfe

 

Many have stated on this Forum that they believe at least an equal number of Spiders were brought into America, or perhaps a slightly higher number of Spiders, therefore wouldn't it be safe to assume at least an equal number of Spiders should be in America?

Do you know if less Coupes were brought into America as had been the case the Ferrari 360's making them more valuable?

BTW, thanks for taking the time to provide this additional information, it's much appreciated!

johnfe

 

They are only worth what somebody is willing to pay. Anything over 150k is silly. The market is changing and fast. I would sugest never to trust a dealer on recent sale prices. They will inflate the price to pull more money from your wallet. Be astute.