What defines and Inter vs Europa car? | FerrariChat

What defines and Inter vs Europa car?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by davemqv, Jan 6, 2017.

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  1. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    #1 davemqv, Jan 6, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Last year while I was in L.A. I fell in love with an old Ferrari I saw at the Petersen, which later went to auction.

    It's a 1952 212 (2+2) SN# 0263EU, that was described to me as an Inter Europa. When it went to auction it was described as a Europa. I have also seen this same car described as a 212 Inter.

    http://www.rmsothebys.com/mo16/monterey/lots/1952-ferrari-212-europa-coupe-by-pinin-farina/1081362

    First question - which is it?
    Second question - What defines an Inter vs. a Europa?
    Third question - What is an "Inter Europa"? What attributes of both must be present to be defined as such? Or was this just an incorrect decription and there is no such thing?

    Sorry if this is a basic question. My searches have not yielded any clear answer.

    PS- it seems like the car didn't sell in Monterey, so anyone who wants to loan me the $1.6 million to buy it will be considered my new best friend. :)
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  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Marcel Massini, Jan 6, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Factory records describe 0263 EU as 212 Europa.
    Have also a look at the cover page of the build sheets.
    There is no such thing as an "Inter Europa", that is a fantasy description in a publication.

    Marcel Massini
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  3. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    In November 2016, this car was still in the Vault of the Petersen.
     
  4. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Thanks Marcel.

    So Inter and Europa are just two entirely different classifications of car?
     
  5. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Oh, it hurts my heart! I love this car so much. And I could have it for half the price of a 275!!! Of course, since I don't have half the price of a 275 it may as well be 5 x the price of a 275, but arg!

    I really love this car.

    Maybe I'll just go on daily vault tours at the Petersen and pretend it's mine. ;)
     
  6. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    For most of it's life, this car was not considered by many to be attractive. But it does grow on one, I admit. Not racy, but sorta elegant.
     
  7. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    It's quite elegant, and I was really charmed by how small the car was in real life. It appears larger in photos to my eye. This is a funny contrast to a modern Ferrari like the 458, which looks pretty reasonably sized in photos, but in real life looks gigantic to me. I prefer old and small.
     
  8. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula 3

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    A very classic style of the period and becoming more popular.
    The model has been chosen as "Best of Show" in a couple of events in the last couple of years.
     
  9. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

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    In person, they look exceedingly elegant to me. And I agree, much smaller than in pictures.
    An ideal representation of the period.
    There was a cabriolet listed at Copley recently. Next to the Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B Corto Touring Spider, I think the 212 is the most elegant car ever produced.
     
  10. IXLR84FUN

    IXLR84FUN Rookie

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    #10 IXLR84FUN, Jan 8, 2017
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    I like this 212 design, but see that the 212 engine and the high roof was improved only once with the 2nd 250 Europa, along with a 3 liter motor the roof was dropped and the ''ridge'' in the top deleted, see pictured 0297EU, a prototype. I think the other was by Vignale. I read the chiche on these pages that this design was Humphrey Bogart handsome in a Liberace world of period Ferraris. Of course Ferrari gave it up for the wider and rounder Europa by Pinn their choosen provider at the time. This car was continued by the 250 Series as in my opinion the most important of all production series cars producing so many pure breed cars such as the TDF to the SWB.
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  11. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    As to the difference between the Inter vs Europa, my understanding is the nomenclature is based upon the Export and Inter were versions for export to the USA and elsewhere while the Europa was for domestic sale. I remember reading that they had different carb setups.
     
  12. Lowell

    Lowell Formula 3
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    I can understand the Eurpoa Nomenclatue but what exactly the difference between
    Export and Inter.
     
  13. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #13 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    Godfrey Eaton states the Inter originally featured a more road friendly carb setup while the Export was the racier of the two (170 vs 150bhp), other than the carbs there was no difference engine wise. The Export was built on the shorter 2250mm wheelbase and wore even chassis numbers against the Inters 2600mm & odd #s. Eaton goes on to state that during the production run, various Inter spec cars were called Export etc. Europa's were simply Inters renamed since the Europa designation would signify GT rather than race and would soon appear as the 250 Europa. So there you have it, hopefully. I note that all cars were individually specified based on intended use and it wasn't until the 250 Europa that the model was "standardised".... Although even they differed from car to car.
     
  14. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Aha. That clears it up. Thanks guys!
     
  15. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Beautiful car and colour combo. The cream top over the blue is gorgeous.

    But "the other" do you mean the car I posted? It was also by Pininfarina.
     
  16. IXLR84FUN

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    #16 IXLR84FUN, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    The car you posted photos of, in blue/blue, aka/ RM auctions is a 212, not a 250 Europa. The 212 having a Colombo 2562CC engine and a ridge line in the roof, sort of a pagoda . It has linage to the two 250 Europa Prototypes 0299EU and 0297EU which were in fact not 212’s but 250 Europas having a Lampredi-designed 3.0-litre V-12 , lower roof, no pagoda ridge. These two were built as 250 Europas on chassis of 2600mm both my Pininfarnia , I was wrong about a prototype 250 by Vignale . As we know one sold to Roberto Rossellini the other, crème/blue photo in the post here , was a factory delivery to ‘Gaetano’ Marchese , the Indy-Promoter friend of Enzo. Photo of Lampredi 3.00 liter prototype engine of the 250 Europa 0297EU.
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  17. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

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    I could be mistaken here, but the Vignale 0295 has a Colombo-design 250, not the Lampredi. Similar, photo in previous post of 0297 shown is I believe a Colombo-design 250, regardless of Europa designation. The long-block of the 250 Lampredi has 7 studs at each long side of the cam-cover (not 6) and tall cast bearing stand-offs for the throttle linkage on right side.
     
  18. Lowell

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    Thanks a lot for going into this detail to explain it clearly.
     
  19. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Hi Ralph,
    Maybe I'm misreading your post but I believe the Bergman/Rossellini "Honeymoon car" was a 212 Inter #0265 EU, very similar to the 212 I posted. But not a 250. It's this one...
    1952 Ferrari 212 Inter Europa Coupe | Ferrari ? Leggenda e Passione 2008 | RM Sotheby's

    Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post.
     
  20. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    +1
    That also explains why someone would classify a car as an "Inter Europa", albeit a misnomer officially I guess.
     
  21. IXLR84FUN

    IXLR84FUN Rookie

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    Rossellini owned several cars of course, being a Big Ferrari Man. 0299 EU, a Europa with similar coachwork to the prototype 0297EU Europa this was a Rossellini car. 0295 EU, the first Europa 250 and 0297EU both had the 3 liter motors that were special for these two Europas. Of course 0295EU was by Vignale, I here correct that. I am not sure what motor 0299EU had as it was a 250 Europa but possibility didn't have a 3 liter like the two prototypes, 0295 and 0297 . I am certain that these two prototypes had special 3.o liter Lampredi engines that were unique to these two cars. I think!
     
  22. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

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    #22 lancia, Jan 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Again, I do not believe the motors in 0295 and 0297 are Lampredi motors. The 250 Lampredi motor has different architecture which it shares with the 375 America. The Lampredi is longer and is constructed differently, with the cylinder barrels screwed into the heads. The other ends of the barrels spigot into the crankcase. The heads are deeper/longer as a result, and the crankcase height is correspondingly lower. Here pictures of Lampredi motors in Europas - look at the space between air cleaners and compare the engine length. I am not aware of any "special 3.0 Lampredi" that differs from that of the 250 Europa/375America series of cars? Remember that Colombo based 250's exist at this time in the 250MM. Not saying that the 0295 or 0297 versions are exactly like the 250MM motor, but evolving from the same Colombo lineage.
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  23. Lowell

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    Is the throttle linkage in the photo original?
     
  24. 246tasman

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    Yes, and count the number of cam cover studs..
     

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