Highest Price Ever Paid for F430 6-spd Gated MT

I've been following this thread with great interest being an owner of an 08 6MT 430 coupe myself. It seems prices for manual 430s can vary greatly between asking and actual selling prices. I think it obviously all comes down to if a seller is willing to sell their car for what a buyer is willing to pay. I can see why a buyer wouldn't want to overpay but as a 6MT owner, knowing full well how rare these cars are, I would want as much as I could get for my car when I do decide to sell. I know they aren't flying off the shelves but I wouldn't be in any rush to sell. I'm the original owner and my car has less than 6K miles and is in immaculate condition. If I were to sell now I wouldn't accept anything less than $280K. Incidentally, I believe that a one of a kind 2007 alligator interior 6MT spider with less than 400 miles went for $357,500 at auction about a year ago.

 

As we all know the Stock Market doesn't just move in one direction continuing to go higher, because at some point it will correct and drop, perhaps considerably. It's similar to the game of musical chairs, no one wants to be left standing when there are no chairs left. Just saying ... It's reasonable to consider the same will take place with the Ferrari prices, is it not?

Thanks for your thoughts,

johnfe[/QUOTE]

I don't think Ferraris are like the stock market...unless it really crashes, then everything drops......mostly I've noticed, that once a model starts to increase in value...it just keeps going....how fast and how much is the unknown......just look at some of the old ones.....Heck, I bought a 328 for 27K on eBay...a excellent car, kept it 5 years and sold it for 60K in one day, when they were going for 70K and upwards. One could also assume that in 8 years from now, a MT 430 selling for 240K would be a bargain, they could go to 300K....especially for the later year 2008/2009....which are a little better cars, (carbon brakes standard,etc.)

 

Mine is a 2008 spider, 9800 miles....The Clutch maintenance had nothing to do with my purchase....I've driven my friends F1, so I can compare.....I Personally like SHIFTING...to me its part of the Ferrari experience to wind out the gears and hear that "Clink" each time you hit the gate....Its Just what its All about...Thats just me...I'm 60, (can't believe it) so maybe its just the old school......It just takes more Skill and most enjoy that....

I also have a 2014 Boxter S...it has paddle shifters and a double clutch, I like driving it also...it shifts much faster than my friends 2008 F1 430 spider.....Now...my friend has a Caymen manual, and gets his shifting fix with that and he loves his Ferrari. ...........So to Sum up, I guess the most Satisfiying driving experience has to be a manual Ferrari with the top down and manually working thru the gears, matching your revs when you downshift...its just magical when it all works.....The reason I bought the manual 430 is because I like shifting the 328 so much...I bought my 430 right before the prices went up, about 2 years ago.....From a nice F chatter in Michigan. saw the ad on F chat, called him the next day and bought it, sight unseen except pictures....he said it was a good car....it was.

I know you were concerned about buying from a owner, I wouldn't be worried about that at all....I'd keep looking on F chat, as they would probably come up for sale here first.....and you save the dealer markup....as far as money transaction goes....You do everything by wire transfer anyway....you can Google who you are buying from and make sure he's legit, it shouldn't be a problem at all.

Whether its worth 80K more for a Manual is something you have to decide....I look at it as a investment, somewhat...the F1 will always depreciate some...At least with the manual, it may be at least worth what you paid for it, years later, so the extra 80K is irrelevant, if you get most of it back on the resale. I'd say, if you have the 80 K or what ever amount, its Worth it.....ONLY IF YOU LIKE SHIFTING........I love it.

Also, If I was buying a F1, knowing it's going to depreciate, I would get one for around 130K....even if it has 12 or 15K miles....its still not a lot o miles, these cars are bullet proof almost.....that car for 160K is going to depreciate FAST...... my friend bought his 430 with 7K miles for 135K, about 2 years ago. he drives it a lot and still has only put a extra 3K miles on it. I don't believe in not having sex with my super model wife, so she'll be good for the next guy......Drive that puppy!!

 

I had a 360 F1 (with strad TCU) and my 430 manual is a dream come true. I will drive a 430 F1 one day soon to compare.
I liked the idea of less clutch wear in the manual. It played a part.
Yes to 10 years plus ownership.
Yes to guessing it would hold value better.
I would not have paid the premiums being asked currently. I would have converted my 360 to manual or sold it to buy a manual one.
Interestingly the last 3 manual 430's sold (including mine) in the last 2 years in my country were asking the same as F1 cars.

 

Johnfe:

You have lots of interesting and valid questions but they do indicate that you've got some learning and catching up to do as far as F-car knowledge and experience are concerned. Kudos to you for deciding to set out on this adventure.

As a highly experienced F-owner for 13 years, my best advice for you would be the following: you cannot possibly know what you are getting yourself into, what you really want, or what the possibilities are by obtaining the answers to your questions from a group of strangers online. Yes, we folks are kind enough to share our experiences with you but we each have our own biases and differences in experience.

You need to get out into the wild and drive one or at least ride in one (assuming you haven't already). If you've never driven a manual transmission Ferrari, you cannot possibly be told about the experience. It's unlike any manual you have ever driven or would ever drive, except maybe for an Audi R8 or Lamboghini, which are very similar to the F-car manual.

I'd say a good 20% of people absolutely hate the Ferrari manual, citing the inconvenience about the way it works; but I would say these folks are usually F-car haters who don't own any or simply don't know how to drive a manual at all. Another 10-20% who own manuals also have no idea how to drive them, but they love the manual anyway. The rest absolutely love the gated shifter because, again, the experience is unlike that of any other manual.

The manual Ferrari is not a lollipop-it-into-gear experience. Using the manual in an F-car is a fine-tuned art. It requires precision execution and pride in executing precisely. It is a highly, highly rewarding experience. But the driver and the transmission will suffer if the driver is not up to the task or lacks the experience to operate the device correctly.

The F1 system **is** a manual transmission. It is an automated manual. It means that it shifts like a manual and feels like a manual. The only thing is -- someone else (a robot) is doing the clutch work for you. The feel is similar to the feeling you have when you sit in the passenger seat while someone else in the driver seat operates a manual transmission. Naturally, the driver is in control, and as the driver you are feeling the car, the engine, and the transmission -- even in a car equipped with the F1. The F1 also provides a wonderful experience, albeit different. There's a reason why most of the 360 and 430 production was F1 -- the vast majority of people preferred it.

While you may not easily find a manual 430 to drive, finding an F1 shouldn't be a problem. After all, your location is F-car country. There are more F-cars out there than at any other location in the country except maybe Florida. Make friends with someone or with various people. Go to F-car events in your area on Sunday mornings. Start posting in the SoCal regional thread on this forum. Visit with someone at his house. Offer up your car to drive in return for driving someone else's. Have someone take you for a ride if the possibility of your driving isn't offered or isn't a possibility. Get out there and experience what you're looking at. This is the best way for you to proceed; once you have that experience, then the questions you have will be more focused and the answers to them will be more useful.

If a 430 isn't available for a ride, try a 360. The experience is very very similar to that of the 430 except for the power and the power delivery. Heck -- drive as many F-cars as you can. That's a policy that every person should have!

These are my 2 cents. Best of luck on this quest.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/509494-f430-manual-auctioned-rm-arizona.html

 

What you are asking us to do is in complete contradiction to human nature.

1) How many of you who now own a F430 MT vehicle would still buy one at today's asking price of $240K?
a) You must consider that few of us, if any, paid nearly that much. Most of us, if not all, got in a while ago before the craze for 6-speed cars.
b) Would we buy one now? What are we going to say – “no?” Are we going to say, “You’d better not – those cars are too expensive now.”?
c) We already own these cars. Why would we want to imagine buying one today at today’s prices if we bought them before the market rose dramatically?

2) …And how many of you would change to an F1 Transmission instead because you still wanted the car, but were unwilling to pay the truly exorbitant price Delta (price difference) of an extra $90K to $100K to still own one?

a) “exorbitant price delta” -- this is a premise which you have inserted into your question which, as a result of human nature, us 6-speed guys would flatly reject.
b) Remember -- we already own 6-speed cars -- why would we switch or even imagine switching to an F1?

3) Any opinions about this bogus inflated market created by the F430 MT car sold at auction for $395K would be most welcome as well!

Again, you have inserted two premises here that 6-speed owners would flatly reject. The first premise is <bogus inflated market> and the second premise is that the &#8220;market&#8221; you are referring to was <created by&#8230; the [$395K] auction [sale]>.

**********
**********

I have a few questions for you to think about as you try to sort out the various questions that you have:

1) Would a homeowner whose home rose dramatically in value tell people that his home is way overvalued?

2) Would a homeowner whose home value rose dramatically in value tell people that he lives on a crappy block or lives in a crappy neighborhood?

3) Would a homeowner whose home value rose dramatically tell people that homes like his in his neighborhood which are for sale are way overpriced?

4) If someone who never previously ate ice cream but was interested in purchasing a bucket of ice cream asked you, &#8220;Which would be better for me to try &#8211; vanilla or chocolate?&#8221;&#8212;How would you go about answering that question? Isn&#8217;t it true that many people prefer one over the other, and there are even some [strange!] people who would tell you they &#8220;hate&#8221; chocolate, &#8220;hate&#8221; vanilla, or even &#8220;hate&#8221; both?

5) In which Ferrari models, if any, have you had the pleasure of riding as a passenger? If applicable, please state the model(s).

6) Which Ferrari models, if any, have you had the pleasure of driving? If applicable, please state the model(s).&#8212;Please accept my sincerest proffer that you would have nothing to be ashamed about if you were to answer (5) and (6) with the answer &#8220;none.&#8221; Not everyone is so lucky and some people who are lucky enough to arrive at the party have no choice but to arrive late&#8212;and we all understand that.

You cannot know anything about vanilla or chocolate ice cream unless you&#8217;ve tried it.

Again, the best way to go about this is not to try to figure this whole thing out on paper as if it's a mathematical problem with a known, definite solution; but to go out and obtain a little real-world experience so you can know how these different cars make you feel. Once you tell us about your experience, we can guide you further. Most of us own these cars because of the way they make us feel. From that you might conclude that most of us make irrational decisions when we buy F-cars; and with respect to many cases you would be absolutely correct.

 

+430! Fred

 

I agree with Dave and admire his eloquence. I do sympathise with the OPs questions though, having an analytical mind may not help in making an emotive decision (buying a Ferrari) but you can't help it. I'm going to answer his questions above as follows:

1) my 6MT 430 is now worth approx 50% more than I bought it for. Would I buy it at its current value? I think I would, because there's no real alternative. (Maybe a gated RWD Gallardo LP but that's something else). But it's an impossible question to answer.

2) I would not buy a 430 F1. Manual was fundamental to my decision.

3) pass

 

Fred's eloquence?? lol

Seriously, you gave a pretty good response yourself. Short and to the point.

 

I meant your eloquence, Dave. Duly corrected.

 

I definitely realized, but thank you for that, Darius. Again, brevity has never been the soul of my own wit, so I can very much admire the efficient responses of others.

 

I do think CCBs are desirable, but judged in years to come, won't make much difference.

All 430s which have had their campaigns properly carried out will have their Mk2 headers etc.

Beginning/end of series value varies model to model, early plexi Daytonas, vetroresina 308s, 365 Boxers etc. But that's when there were significant changes in spec. (Aesthetics, body material, engine/carbs/exhausts etc). I don't think CCBs will make that difference. 6MT marks it out as a collector's car. There is a difference but I think the percentage will lessen.

That's just one man's perspective. There's a whole spectrum out here.

 

The fact is 6MT 430s are worth a lot more than a comparable F1 car, it is what it is. I agree the OP has to drive a manual 430 to see if it's worth it to him to pay the premium. To me having owned my car for almost 9 years the manual is truly a delight to drive. Yes, the shifter is quite balky going into 2nd gear when cold but once it's warmed up it shifts quite smoothly. The shifter will always be more clunky than say my 991GTS but that's part of the charm of having a Ferrari 6MT. I feel my 911 drives like an automatic even though it's a 7MT, so easy to get used to the clutch/shifter. But the sound and feel of my 430 makes me feel like I'm driving a Scuderia compared to the Porsche.

I agree that price for the alligator interior 430 Spider is an anomaly since it's so different with such low miles. But I think this whole manual transmission craze started with that 599 manual selling for around $675K at an RM/Sotheby's auction about a year or two ago. Has anyone heard of other 599s going for close to that price? I know CNC had two 599 manuals and they were asking around $600K for them.

 

What looks to be a beautiful original owner example just listed here for $185k asking:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferraris/542442-f430-spider-6-speed-gated-mt.html

 

I absolutely didn't take offense to your question. What has caused you to say this?

What I am trying to explain is that your question isn't simple. And neither is this topic.

You are asking people hypothetical questions by offering scenarios that most of us 6-speed owners either cannot imagine or cannot respond to very candidly. If you disagree with that, then this is your prerogative.

I did ask you two simple questions about your experience, which I am wondering if you would be willing to answer. It would be easier for me, for example, to put myself in your shoes if you tell me what your F-car experience is. I have zero knowledge about what your F-car experience is. Nor do I have knowledge of your financial position, etc etc.

Please understand -- it's not so easy for someone to put himself into your shoes. Folks here are very reluctant, and wisely so, to give financial advice. What this forum is better suited for is to give you car advice. I can give you all the car advice in the world about F-cars, and so can many others.

I am trying to help you here, but you are simplifying this thing and making claims as matters of fact which are instead matters of conjecture.

People pay a premium for cars for a variety of reasons. You know these reasons!
1) They think the car is going up in value and they are catching it on the way up
2) They think the price is fair in the marketplace and due to limited supply they decide to pay more for what they could have had cheaper had they acted earlier
3) They are extremely wealthy and they don't care about possibly overspending on cars that they like
4) They are simply stupid and have nothing better to do with the money
5) They have been tricked into thinking they obtained a good deal
6) etcetera

Do you see where I am going with this? There's a host of reasons why people pay premiums for special cars like Scuderias, 6-speed manual 430s, Fiorano 355 Spiders, etc etc. Different reasons fit different buyers.

There's also a host of reasons why people aren't willing to pay a premium.

When I was a young Ferrari whippersnapper 13 years ago, I could've bought a 246 Dino for $65,000, a 512BB for $80K, or an F40 for about $250K. I thought all those prices were crazy at the time. Instead, I bought a 348 and started out there and worked my way up the food chain, which is a path many have taken. Was I stupid?

Let's just say the future ain't what it used to be. [Yogi Berra]

Or is it?

Bottom line: you cannot know what any F-car is worth unless you've had the experience. For the sake of this thread and the answers you seek: please agree to go take a ride in one and/or drive one. If you need help with that task, folks will be very happy to help you. Many members of F-Chat are literally the finest people in the world, and in Southern California you will find plenty of outstanding folks who share this hobby who would be willing to assist.

 

"So to everyone else, if you didn't already own an F430 MT, would you pay the tidy sums the many Dealers feel they have been given a license to ask, simply by virtue of the "alligator car" which sold at auction for $395K, as that sale should now be categorized as the "new-normal", as it is a "true representation" of what all late comers must now pay? Or would you move on to something else?"

In that circumstance I would look at the car Mark linked to above and if it checked out I might buy it. Dealers aren't all bad. I wouldn't get hung up on the alligator car.

We owners are loath to sell these cars because we love them, and also because we think they will get more valuable.

But you could buy a 360 manual, 355 manual, 328 manual...Gallardo manual..