Hi, is there a guideline of the base cost of an engine out service on a F355? Are there shop hours listed anywhere for this car/different service? Thanks you all
Does that include everything needed to remove and reinstall engine, bleed coolant, etc. i.e. in and out of the shop job? Or just the timing belt and engine supporting systems (removal, reinstall of parts to get to it)? Thanks!
Unless you're dropping the cradle for some other reason, it would have to include that. I'm not sure what 'baseline' shop hours consist of for that job, but the approach I've been familiarized with is with these services, it's more of a rough plan estimation, and then see what's in there once it's out and disassembled, with casual ballpark numbers ranging from $7k to $20k from reputable indy contacts, depending on how deep you want to go into it and how restorative of an approach to all of the accessible secondary items you want to take. Either way, I'd stay away from anyone that starts spouting off, "$2.5k and 2 days and I'll give you a new set of belts".
I asked this once of an independent shop and their response was 20-30 hours depending. More if I needed water pump and alternator bearing replacements.
Here is what mine was when I bough the car. Includes top end tear down are reassembly. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Interesting -- in this case the top end valve replacement/job was a subcontractor cost I am sure and not included in these hours, correct? i.e. sub to machine shop?
John That is a smoking deal if they did all that for 34hr.Its a nasty job just removing 355 valve covers there always stuck to the heads.I will be honest i can remove a 355 motor in 5 or 6 hrs.But when you start removing cylinder heads you get into some serious labour.You have to remember that there is lots of cleaning to be done.
Yes, the head work was subcontracted, but the hours do include the time to tear down, clean and reassemble. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Removing and reinstalling the heads along with the rest of the work in 34 is insanely fast. John, are you sure that was just not the charged hours verse the actual time? I seem to recall the shop had a deal with the selling dealer. To remove the heads it's a lot of work and a lot of other stuff needs to come off.
I've seen shops bump the prices on aftermarket things like gaskets since the FNA price is so high, and short the number of hours so the bill looks low.
John, obviously Steve is a pro and probably does this with his eyes closed. But, I'm suprised by all the stuff left in the valley. Getting the head nuts off with a clear valley is plenty fun enough let alone with obstacles
I agree, just the difference between having unlimited time to tinker with your own stuff or being under the gun to finish in a reasonable amount of time. I would love to service Ferrari's as a job the way I plan to do my own but who's gonna pay 200 hours for a major?
No offence to those of you that can pull these engines in and out in 20 hours or less but I wouldn't hire you. Generally speaking I feel you get what you pay for and I do not want a 20 hr engine out. I want the shop foreman to spend some time looking at things that go wrong from his experience and I want to fix them while it's out or at least ask the question. Prime example I took my car to fast cars, they called and said the engine mounts are bad but not not terrible. If I want them replaced I could not pick car up for a few extra days. My schedule unfortunately was tight and I asked would you replace them. Their response was they were borderline and would likely not make the next engine out depending on mileage and driving style. I left them alone and 6 months later took it back because after hitting a really bad hole the F1 stuck in gear after contacting the subframe with the actuator.
Jim and Grant, I agree with you both. I'm not fast, never have been, never will be. But I am detailed. But, I'm also a realistic and sure I've only done the disassembly once so would get faster over time, it's still not practical to do the job that quick
Wow thank you guys for all the feedback. I guess 40 hrs it is as a good starting point (not under-bidding or over-bidding the job). The only other question was whether there is a shop manual or equivalent that would list these hours as a guideline?
Actually, it's a pretty sweet story. I don't think the billed hours were the actual hours worked on the car. The major was done by a shop that had a working relationship with the dealer who sold me the car. I think the basic major was kind of an agreed flat rate. The initially agreed price of the car included the major. But the head work was unexpected so the cost of the service was bumped. When the dealer got back to me with the additional cost I just said no. He said the best he could do was to split the additional cost. I still wasn't happy. So the next step was that he offered to split out the cost of the service from the cost of the car. I agreed to that and the cost of the service was invoiced separately to reflect the dealer's cost. Hours probably fudged to make it come out right. Over all, this had two effects for me. It reduced the sales tax I would have to pay on the car and it also dropped the price of the car below $50k which in CT means you pay only 6.35% tax rather than 7%. The net result was I received two invoices, one for the service and a separate invoice for the car. Bottom line, I got a complete head rebuild with new guides, valves and a bunch rebuild lifters for about $1500 over what I would have paid with the original deal. As for paying attention to detail, the service was held up because when the shop got the valves, as I recall, the intakes were from two different runs and he sent them back because and insisted the supplier send him a complete set from the same run. Was that true? I don't know but I was in contact with the shop during the entire service and that's what I was told.
I once had an owner ask for an estimate for a major. After spending some time explaining it to him in detail he told me the dealer gave him an estimate for about half the amount and asked if I could do better. I told him no but thanks for considering me. 3 months or so later he came back to me with a car was running abominably. He handed me a mountain of paperwork from the dealer and told me a story. For his original estimate he got a fluid change. R+R of the power unit, timing belt change with tensioner bearings, cam timing, spark plug change, cam seals, air and fuel filters, A/C discharge and recharge, etc,etc,etc were each line itemed additional charges for parts and labor. The total bill came out to about 3 times my original estimate. It went in a good running car in need of preventative service. It came out nearly undriveable. 3 visits and 3 big bills later it ran better but still very bad. Estimates can mean nothing from some businesses. It tried to diplomatically tell him when I first saw him the job could not be done for the price he was given but some people do not understand that too good to be true almost always is. By the time I was done fixing their screw ups he had almost $30,000 into getting his car serviced. I lose out on jobs on a regular basis because I give good estimates that I intend to honor. There are others that do too but lowballing to get the job in the door is more common than not. And if the give you an estimate over the phone on a 20 year old car they have never seen before be prepared to get bent over. No one honest or in their right mind does something that stupid.
