Official Countach Value Thread

Very good on the VIN. Then I don't understand that concern.

-mick

 

Agree or not with a no reserve strategy, the issue here is the car was not advertised as no reserve until it was on the auction block. If you are going to offer a car at no reserve, it needs to be publicized as such so people know that the car will sell no matter what and they will do the required due diligence necessary to make such a purchase. Changing auction strategy to no reserve just prior to sale is counterproductive and creates a question in a buyers mind as to why. There is no question that this negatively effected the final result.

IMO Autosport is right, no reserve is very risky and should only be used in specific circumstances. Ask me how I know.

David as you said - you got to own a Countach for 20 years for free. That's a win / win either way. Congrats to you.

 

I saw this car at the auction and it knocked my eyeballs out. I wasn't able to receive a new Countach roll off the assembly line (even though I've laid quite a sum to replicate replicate this experience). This car was one of those unrepeatable things and I totally get why he dropped 1м plus to get it new and drive it. Every new car buyer does this, not everyone gets to buy a new Countach.

 

Same colour as my Silhouette, the one you used to own John and is now back in its original colour.
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https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/lamborghini/countach/1881912.html

 

And then there's this: 1989 Countach 25th Anniversary. SOLD: $187,000

Bonhams : 1989 LAMBORGHINI COUNTACH 25th ANNIVERSARYDesign by BertoneVIN. ZA9CA05A9KLA12699

I know it's the unpopular opinion, but I agree with Peter K and others I've talked to offline.

 

I heard the 89 had a salvage title and or bad carfax ? If so there is no basis or comparison.

 

I would like to speak to Chris' point on the change to no reserve right before auction on the S1.

Add that to the catalogue description of the title being in a totally different number than the chassis number.

Add to that the chassis not being stamped in the rear where it should .

Add the odometer uncertainty.

The uncertainty most likely caused the result. The Auction atmosphere is by nature rushed obviously. I know people were scrambling to get more info when they heard "no reserve" and time ran out.

If it was no reserve from the start and all number questions answered so that the bidders had confidence and time to sort the details you could easily believe that the result would have been much higher.

Roy's S2 which had no questions besides an 82 title was bid to 530...so 583 all in which could be the highest price ever bid at auction for S2?

 

From the add


It should be noted that when the consignor purchased the vehicle in 2013, the car had a clean CARFAX showing no issues. Recently, a new CARFAX was run and it now shows an incident which was reported on January 1, 2000. Based on the highly unlikely event that an accident would be reported 16 years after the fact, and that the car shows no evidence of any damage, this appears to be an error. A copy of the clean CARFAX is included with the car.

 

On the 89, thanks for the clarification. Still would've held me back from bidding simply because the more stories the harder to sell in the future . Whether the effect was big or not it still had some effect.

 

The car DID NOT have a salvage title. I don't know where you got that from. The Car Fax shows and accident from 17 years ago. The description does not say air bags deployed or towed from the scene so one can assume it was minor and again 17 years ago. Let's face it, the average Countach has leveled off and in some cases backed up in price. The only cars that will demand Premium prices are Premium condition cars, or very rare or unique builds. In my opinion that's the way it should be, otherwise it's not a real or stable market. The cream always rises.

 

If they added that disclaimer during the auction, then it sent out a big flag.

 

They did not add that disclaimer during the auction. That information was clearly stated on the listing long before the car hit the block. "It should be noted that when the consignor purchased the vehicle in 2013, the car had a clean CARFAX showing no issues. Recently, a new CARFAX was run and it now shows an incident which was reported on January 1, 2000. Based on the highly unlikely event that an accident would be reported 16 years after the fact, and that the car shows no evidence of any damage, this appears to be an error. A copy of the clean CARFAX is included with the car." People seem to be trying to find reasons why some of these cars did not demand the money they had hoped they would. The reason this car sold for that price is because,,,,,,that's what the car was worth to people buying that car, that day, at that venue.

 

Thanks for the clarification on the salvage title. That was the rumor that I heard from the auction floor. I was trying to make a point that once you see the bad Carfax, the rumor mill flies from there. And at auction time is at a premium. Obviously. I totally agree that the cream rises to the top and the tide that lifted all boats has receded a bit. Have a great day everyone.

 

Trying to sell a collector car with a carfax ding is a very challenging proposition.

 

So I was being dumb. Unlike a QV, David's car did not and could not have had a 17 char VIN since it was a pre 1980 model. Regardless, its VIN of 112.1094 along with David's description shouldn't have been a concern - a shame that it was apparently.

-mick

 

My S2 at RM came with a HIGH REAL bid of $530K....they were working with the buyer and me...HOWEVER it was not enough to NET me the $555K I wanted for the car...so as of now, its a NO SALE>

Things may change prior to the end of the weekend...we are still working with the possible buyer, at least the Auction house is.

I think its worth EVERY penny of $555K...so maybe $575K to the buyer...go try and find a nicer S2 anywhere in the world...just go and try...

If things change, I will advise here.

Thanks Roy

 

Exactly.

 

Very well stated.

I also agree with your earlier post that a No Reserve is a terrible idea at an auction, no matter what the reasons are, all of which are slanted in favor of the auction house's interests and not the consigner. It doesn't take an expert to see that.

So too, your post that the only cars that will command Premium prices are Premium condition cars, or very rare or unique builds is 100% correct, and indeed that's the way it should be, otherwise it's truly not a real or stable market. Its inevitable, cream always rises, so we agree on a lot of things!

 

Peter, since we are in opinion land, it makes sense to me to keep the reserve, unless the price comes very close. no matter how it is sliced, Vin not showing on the rear (and we all know the chassis was not changed!), mileage (how many have it wrong?) etc, the car is an S1, period.

What I have seen work is a very cheaply advertised car a no reserve. I recall a specific case where I wanted the car at ~80K (estimated 60-70K if i recall). Had very low miles. Then it was indicated by the house the day before auction that it was crashed / repaired but this was not showing on the carfax (track accident). Thus I adjusted my bid to $60K as the repairs were far from perfect. The car sold for over $100K! as 2 guys got into it. Bid to $90K was fast and furious. Now less than 1 year after a seller is flipping it for $145K, still no mentioned of the "history".
Same car model , same mileage and no accident could not sell for $80K in TX..
So if you play it right you can sell a car over price at auction if the sellers has nothing to lose and plays right.

 

With regards to “NO RESERVE” auction sales: This can obviously be an incredibly risky proposition, but when properly strategized it can (sometimes) pay off. When you look at the recent RM Duemila Route sale, prices were stratospheric. The reason for this was the ridiculously low estimates assigned to all lots by RM as they didn’t have to woo individual collectors with big promises of great results. Their consignor was the Italian government who had no interest in the cars they possessed other than disposing of them at “fair market value” to be determined by the bidding public. What effect did this have? Prospective bidders salivated over the prospect of swooping in and getting the deal of a lifetime. Prior to the auction, prospective bidders became attached to the cars that they would buy at ½, ¼, or maybe even less of their value and already owned them in their own minds. The auction was just a formality as they arrived to take what was theirs. The problem was that other bargain hunters from around the globe arrives in droves to do the same. Bidders battled it out to defend the purchases they had already made in their minds in the weeks leading up to the auction. The result? In case you missed it, nearly every lot sailed passed the most optimistic of (current)retail sale prices imaginable. Since we are on a Countach thread, look at the 34,369 KM Anniversary Countach that was “just a car” by all accounts that hammered at an astounding $426,155! Obviously, RM truly captured lightening in a bottle with this unrepeatable sales event.

With regards to questions posed by others about the sale of 112.1094 (David Anderson’s much loved Lp400S1) such as: “If you thought it was such a deal, why didn’t YOU buy it? When the car was promoted by RM with a $600-$700K estimate (and obviously, a similar reserve) and advertised by David himself with a $700K FIRM price; There was no motivation for myself, and I dare say many other prospects for this car to attend or register to bid. I truly believe this was the reason for the somewhat light sale price. Lifting the reserve in the 11th hour did nothing to increase the ultimate sales price. At the end of the day, David has an excellent attitude about the sale realizing that he got a lot of enjoyment from his stewardship of the car and was actually able to realize considerably more money from the sale of the car than it actually owed him. The buyer was also able to get in to a wonderful car that they can restore (if they wish) and not be under water.


With all of that said, I am firmly of the opinion that the way to sell such a car is to align yourself with a marque specialist who trades these cars regularly and can give real time market guidance and expertise with regards to who is a buyer for your car, and what is the optimum “win-win” price (today) for both buyer and seller.


Clearly the market for all Countach (with exception of the Downdraught -non Anniversary-QV which is the currently clawing its way to the top of the heap) has softened a bit from the frenzy of 2014. Many long term owners have seen the 2014 frenzy come and go. Having seen the market level off and recede slightly, they see it as a good time to unload their cars. This will keep prices for all cars pretty level until the market ultimately absorbs them and the cars wind up in stronger hands. The top end of the general retail marketplace (where the uninformed think the “average” Countach was or is) is looking for the most desirable variants in the most desirable and unique (original) colors with the most unimpeachable histories. “Nut and Bolt” restorations of Countach are also a young phenomenon, and as the general retail marketplace realizes the commitment of time and money it takes to create one they too will be fully priced in to the value of one of these cars as they represent the only way for a 30-40 year old car to truly live up to the bedroom poster fantasy. Ultra rare “time warp survivors” will also continue to live at the top of the value heap.
I am personally of the opinion that there is no better long term (generally) sub $1M automobile to invest in (and ENJOY!!) than a Countach. While there are some enticing cars from other generally more widely celebrated marques, there is no other car in the (generally) sub $1M bracket that is even close to being as much of an icon and milestone as the Countach. It is the archetypal supercar. It ticks so many boxes (iconic design, V-12 engine, elaborate birdcage frame, hand formed alloy body, formula/sport prototype car -of the period- suspension design, unique engine/gearbox packaging solution and incredible exclusivity). I seriously doubt there will ever be another fantasy automobile that captures the imagination of so many.
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Roy, I don't understand why the auction house would allow this deal to fall thru ? The buyer's premium buy fee is 10% per their website. That's $53,000.00 available to the auction house on this deal. They charge you no sell fee and then take $25,000.00 from the buy fee and cover you to your net required sale price to $555,000.00 and they pocket $28,000.00 from the deal. Is the auction house REALLY going to walk away from a $28,000.00 profit and end up with ZERO off this deal ??? Auction houses ALWAYS want to get cars sold even at a discounted rate. It's good for the buyer, it's good for the seller' it's good for the auction house and it's good for the market. Makes no sense ?

 

Or, if the buyer is confident, and willing to gamble, maybe he can wait until the car returns to the seller, and buy the car after the fact, saving himself some money. The same idea but in reverse. He can buy at the full $555 without the fees and come out ahead of the game.