So, I got a chance to drive my buddy's F12 TDF over the weekend. It shifted without hesitation or slippage. Just an amazing car and experience. Is there any way to improve the F430's shifting to help take away the slippage and delayed shifting?
Don't get me wrong. Mine shifts pretty fast, but not instantaneous like the TDF. Mine just had the F1 serviced before I bought it, so I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I wasn't sure if there was a tune or adjustment that could be done to help it. Same with starting from a stop, the TDF has zero slippage compared to the F430.
TDF is a dual clutch transmission with instant shift. There is no hesitation and its super smooth. F430 is a 120ms single plate clutch. It will NEVER match the characteristic of dual-clutch. You will always feel the disengage and engage sensation of the clutch, for 120ms. To get the most out of shifting, set it to racemode and shift above 7000rpm.
That's like asking an F15 to perform as well as an F22. Different system, different generation of a new and rapidly changing technology.
f12 is dual-clutch transmission, no wonder it is quicker than conventional gearbox. it is to be expected. of course, as Dave rocks said, it all comes down to what degree of slippage and hesitation sometimes after I drove the 458, I thought my 360 gearbox had a problem. That's how bad the 360 gearshift is compared to the 458
Eric, I think someone here changed hardware and upgraded the TCU to achieve Scud. shift speed at 60ms. I'm not sure but I think I read it somewhere?
It is possible to "mimic" the ultra fast shift of a dual clutch in a manual car, I think they call it power shifting Just keep the gas throttled pinned to the floor and clutch in and shove the gear lever into the next gear as humanly fast as possible then dump the clutch. Terrible to transmission and clutch life, but super fast shift and almost no interruption in torque like a dual clutch haha
There is no way to achieve like dual clutch speed and smoothness. It is the nature of dual clutch as it is alternating between one and the other in every shift. Sure the Scud is slightly faster, but the break in power between the shift is much more noticeable.
slippage from a stop can be dialed in with PIS adjustments via SD3 or Leonardo. There are 2 things I've been told can increase shift speed in an F430 F1: 1) set the PIS so tight that it almost drags and pulls the car forward if on a level surface in 1st gear with no brake 2) drill out the banjo bolt holes in the F1 system (some are smaller than others) to the same uniformly larger diameter There is no TCU update like for 360s
You can do that on a F360 (TCU upgrade), but not on a F430. The differences between the F430 F1 transmission and 430 Scuderia are more than just software.
Look, before this gets out of hand let's just frame this properly. Eric got out of a 6 speed F1 equipped F430 which has a hydraulically operated clutch as part of what is by all means a manual transmission. He then got into a 7 speed dual clutch transmission equipped F12 which is absolutely not a manual transmission in any way because it essentially has two sets of gears (odds and evens, one set for each clutch). He then wants to know why his manual transmission shifts like a manual and this other transmission with two clutches and two sets of gears shifts faster and what's wrong with his manual transmission. Before anyone gets into ways to improve transmissions, let's just state clearly that other than the trademark "F1 transmission," these two have nothing in common and it's not a question that has an answer. It's like asking why is Eric's F430 faster than his neighbors Prius. As far as speed goes, the late F430 F1s shift as fast or faster than the CS transmission (150ms). The Scud shifts faster but that's because the Superfast transmission it came equipped with has different shaped actuators and bevels aimed at speeding the shifts. Still, a single clutch manual transmission with a hydraulically actuated clutch can never be as fast or smooth as a dual clutch gearbox. I just had to get that out of the way before people try to address the original post with any sense of seriousness. I know that most people know this but I'm seeing the potential for this thread to derail after some good answers and I thought that a statement of the facts might be helpful. Taz with the correct workshop manual info in 3, 2, 1...
Well if it wasn't, you wouldn't be able to convert it to a manual shift by just adding a clutch pedal, shifter, and all the appropriate lines and cables, right?
E, mine doesn't slip but I am careful from a stop. If not my wheels will spin and I won't move but a few feet. Perhaps with time that won't be the case but right now my clutch grabs very well.
At one point I went from an m3 with an smg transmission (single clutch) to a newer model with their dual clutch transmission. So much smoother, so much faster shifts, and so much less fun and character in my opinion. After awhile I realized that all the mechanical feel and noises of the single clutch suited me better and the fast smooth perfect shifts of the dct were too robotic. I missed it enough that when I went searching for a Ferrari one of the number one requirements was a single clutch. The wife wanted to drive it on occasion so a manual was out. Of course she's afraid to drive it anyway! Jason
But if it was a manual it wouldn't need to be converted to a manual in order to be one. IMO, there is F1, DCT, manual and none of the terms are interchangeable regardless of which or how many components are shared.
Hi Eric, Well is not apples to apples comparison as many stated on previous comments, on my F360 when I installed the OEM Racing exhaust that is the same as the Challenge Stradale, the ECUs were re-flashed with the Challenge software, the shifting improved 200%, not sure if you can get some ECUs from the Scuderia and see if that helps. Also I always drive her in sport mode...in your case, select race to have the fastest shifts. All the best. Alex
Interesting perspective this and one I completely get - in fact it is the main barrier the stops me "upgrading" from my 2008 F430F1 to the 458. You see my everyday driver is an F10 M5 comp pack ( quicker shifts/reprogrammed M diff etc.) with you guessed it the same DCT as the 458, and yes its robotic. Fine as a daily driver, great in traffic everyday playing at being a limo - but that not why I bought a Ferrari. That's my fear having read other posts I will loose some of the rawness, its a play car, an event, a pick me up at the end of a tough day. Yes in certain circumstances (slow speed shifts etc.) the F1 feels a little agricultural but when it really matters and you're pressing on it feels every bit as good as a DCT (yes a touch slower before you all chime in) but with a much more mechanical connection to me the driver and not like a play-station game which the BMW can sometimes portray - Yes Jason I get your point exactly. Find a good 2008 car (later software, smoother, quicker changes) make sure its set up correctly and enjoy.
I researched about putting Scud software to base 430 but I think they have different hardware too so we cannot get SF2 on the standard 430. Unfortunately yeah coming back from a 458 to a 430 feels like I just went back to the stoneage with the transmission
Except when you're looking in the "for sale" ads of any dealership. All F1 transmissions are listed as "manual" apparently. I guess because somehow someone who is looking for a stick will rethink because salesmanship. You guys get mad at me when I call the F1 (superfast) system "crappy"... this is it. If there were a way to retrofit the DCT boxes to the 430 that'd be sweet. Hmm.. I wonder if that can be done...
