Actually in the article they say " every ferrari SOLD from 2019 will be hybrid ".... however it does not really matter .... i am happy about a NO KERS for this f12 M ... and sorry if i have "scared" someone but the press here in Italy were very pushing about the fact that from 2019 every single ferrari sold would be an hybrid one!!
Thanks for posting the up to date info Marcel. It has cleared up quite a few points. I do like the sound of the new red.
This car will not disappoint.... at all! Glad to hear no KERS; the F12 doesn't need the extra dead weight.
I would personally love KERS or at least cylinder on demand feature. Skickat från min MHA-L29 via Tapatalk
Well as opposed to spouting nonsense with authority, it would help in future if you could qualify your comments as had we known it was from an ill informed magazine, we could have discarded it knowing there is far more genuine knowledge on this board. Unfortunately you posted it seemingly as a bald fact, as though you had some inside knowledge.
You have right , but those words ( every car from 2019 sold will be hybrid ) was sayed by Mr Sergio Marchionne to the press ...so i supposed was real words and of course i have heard lots of rumors here in Italy that this f12 will be with Kers. however sorry again
Could it be that you mean electro-hydraulic, a la LaFerrari? This systems is basically a hydraulic system powered by an electric motor instead of the engine. PS: Just saw that you were referring to the rear wheels. Well, all the new 4WS systems work that way.
It wasn't logical from the beginning for this car to have an additional electric motor. What could be the minimum horse power outfit of an electric motor of this kind? 150-170 PS? So if we take the V12 of F12 that's already produces 740 PS that could mean a total power of above 900 PS. I think that when they decide to use kers in the replacement of F12M, it would be with an all new engine with smaller maybe capacity or with less cylinders. I am not a engineer but this is my thought
It's the press, and looking back through the last 1½ year, it's clear that the automotive press is usually way less informed than we are on this board. Also, when they say every Ferrari sold from 2019 will be hybrid, that's simply pure nonsense. That would basically mean that they would have to turn the Lusso and maybe even the 488 into a hybrid before they will be replaced. What they mean (if it's even true that every Ferrari will be hybrid by then) is that every NEW model released AFTER 2019 will be be hybrid. This means the 488 replacement, the F12M replacement, the Cali T replacement(most likely) and the Lusso replacement. What's uncertain is what new car Ferrari will debut in 2018 at Geneva. Will they replace the Cali T, introduce some kind of entry level V6 car or will they actually use the Geneva show for the 488 VS. However, Ferrari seem to use the Frankfurt and Paris show for the VS cars. Time will tell what will happen in 2018, but there are basically two scenarios. 2017: F12M 2018: V6, 488 VS or other unknown (likely hybrid) 2019: Cali T replacement (hybrid) 2020: 488 replacement (hybrid) 2021: Lusso replacement (hybrid) 2022: F12 M replacement (hybrid) 2017: F12M 2018: Cali T replacement 2019: 488 replacement 2020: Lusso replacement 2021: F12 M replacement The first scenario is what I think will happen.
Cylinders on demand will often mean it will sound rough and bad when cruising. Also, I've yet to drive a car with cylinder activation where it was not felt in a bad way. No thanks.
This may be the original quote “The cycle of cars that will be launched from that point on will include by definition hybridization,”
Are "we" 100pc on 800, not really Ferrari style eg Speciale and Lusso just under 600 and 700.......they dont seem wedded to round numbers assume as engineering led not marketing.
I've been told 800 from a past reliable source. I suspect that will be 790 BHP which equates to about 800 HP. Still a stonking power increase for a 200cc capacity increase.
For what it's worth, I understand the Cali T replacement will be either end this year or early 2018. It could be the new Cali is the first proper hybrid as this would still comply with the plan and statement from Ferrari.
Indeed. I do however doubt that Ferrari will debut an all new platform, especially one with a hybrid system at the Frankfurt show. What they may debut at Frankfurt could be an "update" of the Cali T, a bit like they did with the Cali 30. Then that could keep the Cali T alive until Geneva 2019. So much is changing currently, so it's hard to say. As for Paris, my money is still on the 488VS. Geneva '18 is the wildcard imo.
It's certainly possible to do. 800 PS is still a lesser specific output than that of the standard 578 PS 458 Italia engine. If the specific output was the same as the 4,5 liter Italia V8, the 6,5 would have to have 834 PS.
In the V12 world, 800 is in line with the specific output of TdF which admittedly has racing tappets. An F50's V12 had 111hp/litre back in 1995, so 123hp/litre is not such a leap.
I think, and this is only a guess, that Ferrari chose to go with solid tappets rather than hydraulics for four reasons. Firstly. While the solid tappets need more maintenance, they are more durable in severe performance conditions. Seeing that the TdF was meant to be driven aggressively, the solid tappets could be an advantage. Secondly, these tappets allow for higher spring pressure along with steeper lobe ramp angles. This in turn can provide a lot of torque in the upper half of the rev range which again corresponds well with the goals of the TdF and its engine. Thirdly. The valve train is most likely lighter which will aide in the engine response. Fourthly. Ferrari can for marketing purposes relate the engine directly to race car technology, and the sound will be very race car-like. This is also a big part of the allure of the TdF. But again, just guesses and thoughts.
Perhaps I wasn't clear - apologies. Agree with you re solid tappets on M. I was suggesting that the the M's specific output is on par with TdF but also that it isn't a fair comparison due to the TdF's racing tappets. So the question is whether it a jump from 118hp/l in the F12B to 123hp/l in the M - just suggesting it isn't such a huge leap - some tuning, variable intake geometries etc could get there.
Keep in mind Ferrari also has to build these motors to emissions, economy, and reliability targets. I would imagine also when you enlarge a motor to produce even more power then the forces on those parts are even greater.
It is sheer madness that if rich enough one can take an 800bhp RWD car on the,roads (in UK at least) with no specialised qualifications. On a bike there are extra tests at CC levels. Be easy to introduce extra requirements, politicians are spineless.
