Differences in parts between QV FI and QV DD engines?

If you look closely inside the magazine, you can see the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection Countach that topped out at 166 mph (second image).

Most 455 bhp Downdraft tested have done @ 180 mph.

The Martini Downdraft is the ONLY 470 bhp Downdraft tested, and its performance was accordingly different.

Back in those days, the Editors probably thought the performance would be similar, but in fact it is quite different, which brings us back to the point of this thread - the DIFFERENCES.
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To put this in perspective, basically these are 996 turbo figures, 20 years earlier.....

 

5,1 is very good for the fulie,beeig the fast lane dd test is a bunch of crap, only reliable test in europe at the time was Aut motor undt sport,or their sister publication,wich always came inn in the high 4 s, based on this the nmbrs mkes sense reg the 0.3 sec differense. Again one with cats and log exhaust,one with headers an no cat.

 

The Downdraft tests on period all had the big muffler fitted and they average @ 4.8 secs, including Auto Motor und Sport, AUTOCAR, Road & Track etc.

The ONLY Downdraft that was tested with a sport exhaust fitted, see below, 0-60 in 4.2 secs.

That's a lot better than 5.1 secs, no?

Almost a second quicker.
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I guess to settle this,we need a dragstrip,proper timing gear,a downdraft And a fuelie with downdraft exhaust ,or both with Joes aftermarket non original modified exhaust. Wich i happen to really digg. And Joe,thanks for thinking of me in Church Sunday,i will be in Indianapolis with my daughters gymnastic team.

 

Its a Fastlane test, its crap ,

 

Just be happy for the Downdraft, your constant whining, doubting, spinning of alternative facts, and splitting of hairs only screams one thing: WHAT I REALLY WANT IS A DOWNDRAFT!!!!

 

And here is one more observation while wee are looking at the differences.

Fast lane weighed the DD at 3290lbs no gas, and the Motor Trend FI car weighed 3490lbs not sure how much gas in the tank.

The DD is anywhere from 150-200lbs lighter than an FI.

 

Not to me, Martini, Balboni, Dron, Marmiroli and @ 300+ Downdraft owners

 

200 lbs heavier?

That's another difference.

 

0-120 times are probably the best to illustrate how big a difference it really is with all these new fangled parts on a FI.

14.1 vs 16.6.

 

Joe,here is your 200 lbs, to the fi disadvantage,

 

Wow, that speaks for itself, no need for a drag-test.

 

Ellagirl, you preach about how the community should universally appreciate all the cars.

PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.

 

What part of an apples for apples comparison do you not understand?

If you can bring a performance-modified Fuelie, then a performance modified version of a Dowdraft should be the comparison car. This would mean a Downdraft with blueprinted (470 bhp) engine, sport cams, free-flow headers and open exhaust.

The outcome would be predictable.

 

Love the downdraft, just pusseled why 2 identical engines,0.1 comp ratio diff,different cams(who knows wich are hotter) we know they are different, given the same exhaust,and the lack of us bumpers wich acc to your magazines are 200lbs ,why would this cars not perform equal,?value and collectability discuusion aside,

 

Have a nice weekend to all my fellow chatters, even Joe, who is costantly horrassing me,��������

 

LET IT GO.

Read, learn & believe.

Feel the love

 

Nobody is harassing you, stop being a cry-baby, just because I don't accept spinning & splitting of hairs and have some actual facts to share in rebuttal does not mean your view is not understood or appreciated. I simply see things differently.

 

Thanks for your advice reg read and learn, and i do feel the love😀hovever this discussion is about nothing But. Laws of physics mat and common sense.

 

Ah... very good info.. But you need to check your sources...

Firstly, I apologize for inaccurately stating that it was Chrysler. It maybe a combination of old age, or simply thinking back to Lee Iaccoca and his Anniversary Countach, or merely getting the C in Chevy and Chrysler confused. The FACT is the car was owned by GM, and was purchased by them to generate data in order to compare the car to the new Corvette. I also believe the test was conducted at the GM Proving grounds.

Now according to you "It was clearly stated" that the car was a fuelie, and that many people "missed that" On the contrary, what you may have missed is that it clearly-stated " We held the pedal of the EUROPEAN model down until kingdom come and found our test cars limit at 7000 rpm, 500 short of redline. We doubt very much that all 449 horses were present and accounted for. Nevertheless, the speedo needle rotated all the way around to 166mph " Must be another testament to the reliability of the carb setup.

So please show me your FORD Downdraft images that were personally given to you by Albert.

 

If the doubting goes both ways.. why in your mind would a fuelie make LESS than the quoted figures yet you constantly refer to DD making more than the quoted figures.. What if some, made more? Considering a member here himself posted that his DD made 355 rwhp, that would put a DD at well below the quoted 455hp...

I reread my original post, and I didn't notice where I said the Tachs were inoperative.. I said that many of them were less than accurate, causing some to shift prior to hitting 60mph in 1st gear, while others were able to conduct 0-60 in first gear. If you'd like to educate yourself on older mechanical tachs, take a look here:
The Tachometer

This line specifically sums it up " Even working perfectly, the non-linear aspect of mechanical tachometers renders them less than perfectly accurate. " I have personally been at the shop with two Countachs at idle, one showing an 1100 idle speed, one showing just under 1500, yet, upon testing they were both nearly identical.

I would also recommend becoming more knowledgeable on exhaust systems as a catalytic converter and muffler are not one in the same.. A typical catalytic converter (especially one from the 80s) robs a good 12-15hp. A fuelie.... has 2 of them...

Lastly, the argument, at-least my argument has never been whether a full Euro DD is faster than a Full U.S. Fuelie. My argument is that in order to legally drive a DD in the U.S. it would need full emissions equipment. Im assuming you put converters on, as even today it would need them to be fully legal, pass smog etc, especially in Ca. Now if you are not running converters, why would someone with a fuelie be expected to, and that causes the Fuelie to gain power. In my case , I was never really concerned with which of the 2 cars was faster, as the reality is in todays world they are both very slow. My #1 priority was driveabilty, and making sure the car had euro bumpers.

Love the pics of the EURO DD being tested off the line. Illustrates my point of DD cars being tested to their fullest. Please show pics of the U.S. model being tested in the same manner.

 

Since you believe the Fastlane stopwatch article, and you own what you say is an incredibly strong DD which was more than likely special, we can put a wager on it. Lets say, you hit 195mph in an instrumented test, Ill pay you $50k?

As for the Bob Wallace Miura and factory ringers, I spoke about this ....with Bob Wallace.

 

Great info... If you look at Motor Trend testing parameters, they weigh the car with a full tank of fuel. According to the web, a U.S. QV hold 29 Gallons of fuel. An Avg Gallon of fuel weighs 6.183 lbs... Lets say for arguments sake 25 gallons... thats 154lbs...

Automobile Mag lists Curb weight for their U.S spec QV at 3278lbs..
Next.....

 

Last but not least, as you sarcastically asked me if I was there when tests were conducted in order to see if people achieved 0-60 in 1st or 2nd gear. To answer your question, I merely looked to your favorite, and most trusted article.. FastLane...

So no, I was not there, but I'm assuming that you'll believe Peter was. And In his immortal words I will quote" You simply give it lots of revs to break the tenacious grip of the enormous rear tyres, dump the clutch, and go. IT GOES ALL THE WAY IN 1ST IF YOU IGNORE THE REDLINE CHANGE UP AT 58MPH"

So where would that put a U.S. QV which achieves 0-60 in 5 or 5.1 seconds while shifting the dog leg 1st to 2nd shift?

Additionally, Dron goes on to further comment "If you are a respector of of redlines, you will NEVER see over 183 mph in a Countach."

This leads me to believe that appart from modifications you listed, this car, (more than likely others as well) has had its revlimiter raised or removed.

Additional words from as you call him ...Vale:

Countach performance is the stuff of legend. Some of it’s legit; a lot is B.S. Valentino Balboni, Lamborghini’s longtime test driver, says more than a few “official” top speeds set at the Nardo test track are bunk. Lamborghini doctored tires, removed mirrors and wipers, even hollowed out suspension joints—anything to beat Ferrari. Not exactly surprising. But, in terms of mythos, the LP5000S Quattrovalvole trumps all. Claims of the car hitting 100 mph in 10 seconds, and handily breaking 200 mph, mostly trace their origins to a landmark 1986 Fast Lane magazine road test, where editor Peter Dron rode with F1 driver Pierluigi Martini in a then-new QV. Dron witnessed the speedo “reading 325 kmh” (201.9 mph), and clocked the flying kilometer at 11.46 seconds at a heady 314.1 kmh (195.2 mph). Balboni remembers that car; the factory rigged the airbox. Intake spacers gave Martini’s QV, the gnarliest hexa-carbureted Euro-spec model, a healthy bump in top-end power, and an edge in the test.