2016 NFL Season

Yup, I think this performance puts a nail in the coffin of that discussion.

 

GOAT is hard to compare when the best qb (IMO) plays in a completely different era then Brady. Run first vs pass first era salary cap vs non salary cap, qb protection vs minimal. Not to mention playing in a VERY top heavy conference his entire career.
Ryan might have just iced never getting in the HOF - if he doesn't take that terrible sack there is no comeback unless they get an onside kick. He had one good quarter in the entire game.
I think Brady getting the MVP was legacy padding, though. He got the ring but White was the MVP hands down. Brady had the most yards ever but he also probably had top3 most attempts and that was the only highlight on the stat sheet. White accounted for 21/34 pts and led the team in both rushing and receiving categories. He had over 100 yards and a SB game record receptions.

 

That was 100% coaching. Yes, Ryan should have thrown the ball away, but why did the coaches put him in that situation, given the circumstances?

 

Two series come to mind that were the most critical in this game.

1) The failed onside kick, which gave Atlanta the ball at the NE 40 yard line, and they couldn't at least get a FG out of it? Any points at that point of the game would have ended the game.

2) After the Julio Jones outstanding catch, which in my opinion is what "should" have iced the game, ATL had 1st down at the NE 22 yard line. Why didn't ATL run the ball 3 times, force NE to use their TO's, and then kick a FG to put the game out of reach?

NE gift wrapped ATL this game, but Atlanta didn't know how to accept that gift, so they gave it back to NE.

Dan Quinn and Kyle Shanahan deserve 100% of the blame, and they look and sound as dumb as their post game comments (Quinn "I don't know what we could have done more to win this game" and Shanahan "We try to give our kicker a better chance than a 50-yard FG"). 50-yard FG??? I didn't realize that 39 and 50 are the same #.

Dan Quinn was the Seattle D-Coordinator 2 SB's ago when Carroll's and Bevell's boneheaded decision to pass at the 1-yard line. Did he not learn from that?

My question is when teams play NE, why do they abandon logic and common sense and try to get cute? Belichick isn't a genius, it's just that every other coach is dumber than he is (except Tom Coughlin).

 

Tom, just wanted to say I've always enjoyed your posts in this thread. Unbiased and to the point. Today I have to say the joy of Goodell handing Brady the MVP award, made the entire season for me. I couldn't have been written any better! Enjoy the offseason

 

One of my cronies thinks that the guy that Belichick can't figure out isn't Couglin, it's Eli Manning.

 

Thanks. Much too kind. The F-chat NFL thread is a great group. Interesting opinions from many different angles, with strong opinions that have only rarely devolved into flaming and trolling. I've said this before, but bears repeating, F-chat has greatly enhanced my enjoyment of the NFL. Great end to a great season. Go Cowboys!

T

 

After reading some of the posts here, plus thinking more about it, I am starting to move toward the viewpoint that Atlanta lost it, as much, if not more than NE won it.

As for GOAT, Ace Master has convinced me that championships are what separate the merely great from the truly transcendent figures. Brady has more wins, and more SB victories, and has done it for longer than just about anyone else. To me, that's case closed. I used to think Joe Montana was the GOAT, but I now concede it's Brady. Being married to a Texan, I am obligated to add Roger Staubach to the mix, or my wife will clock me upside the head with a cast iron pan!

T

 

Another great year so I can safely say starting the new season................Go Lions!

 

I completely agree. Tom Brady is great. NE didn't give up and made a miracle comeback, they deserve credit. But let's be real and not kid ourselves, Atlanta handed that game to NE when something very simple and very conventional could have cemented it for Atlanta.

In my opinion, the GOAT is determined by how one performs when the most is on the line. To me that would be Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Brady has more wins, but Montana never put his team in a hole that Brady did yesterday. Montana never threw an INT in any of the 4 Superbowls he played in. To me that is clutch and that is outstanding.

Do you remember when Joe Montana played for KC at the end of his career? Did you see what he did with a mediocre KC roster vs a mighty Elway led-Denver (it was a Monday night classic ending where Elway led a late-game 2-minute offense for the go ahead touchdown, only to see Montana lead KC back to a last second game winning TD)?

Do you recall the playoffs that year? He led KC over Pittsburgh and then Houston (who was red hot after winning 12 games in a row I believe going into the playoffs), but eventually lost to Buffalo.

I don't think there is a wrong answer if you were to pick one of these two as the GOAT, but I would give Montana a razor thin slight edge.

 

2017 is THE year! I've said it every year for 31 years for the Mets. And, one of these days I will be right!

T

 

So who did you say you thought the GOAT QB is if it isn't TB12?
Different eras?
You must be picking Joe Montana or Terry Bradshaw. Aikman?
As you said, different rules.
But also, Defenses are MUCH faster (and quicker) than in the 80's, and for
sure the 70's. And stronger. And smarter.

Today's QB has to play at a much faster level than 20-30-40 years ago, you saw that
when Brady (Brady, Belicheck, McDaniels, whoever) went from 18-20 yard pass plays to
10-12 yard patterns, that gave the line one less second they had to block.

If you take any of the NFL's starting QB's today and plunk them into being the
starting QB for, say Minnesota in the 70's, Minnesota would have a few rings.
FOR SURE if they had a top-10 QB from today.

The game has evolved, we all know that, but for one thing that is maybe 'easier'
today, there is an equal part that is 'harder'.

Agreed 100%

Why? Because he is doing his job? I don't like how 'deflategate' went down, nor 'spygate',
or with Sean Payton getting booted for a year, but the commish had to enforce something
or risk the alternatives, but to say he is MORE of a liability than an asset is just wrong.

 

If Montana was 25 yrs old today and played in the NFL he could not do it, he'd get crunched.
Joe had a great TEAM, arguably 'star' players at nearly every position (when with SF). Go take a look at how many 49ers went to the pro bowl.

 

I agree with you and Tom. In that 4th quarter there were some horrendous coaching gaffs, and Matty Ice should have thrown the ball away instead of taking a sack, and it wasn't even from his blind side.

As I watched the game after the first half I was just hoping we didn't embarrass ourselves. Just make the game close and lose 35-25. It wasn't until later in the 4th quarter that I thought, hey we could actually win this thing.

I also agree there may be no wrong answer. However, I will bring up two points. From Montana's Hall of Fame bio, "He led 31 fourth-quarter comebacks, including 92-yard game-winning drive in the closing moments of Super Bowl XXIII." Now I don't know if Montana put them in a hole all those times.

The other point is Joe played with who I would regard as the greatest receiver of all time. Tom has never played with a Hall of Fame receiver (Moss might make it some day, but we didn't win a SB with him). In fact most of his wide receivers were never with the team for more than three years. And the funny thing is when they went to another team for more money, they sucked. I think Tom elevates the play of most of the players around him.

I heard that some talking head today called him not the greatest QB but the luckiest QB. I'm reminded of a quote I always adhered to in business, "The harder I work the luckier I get"!

 

This is exactly right, especially number 2. For some crazy reason Shanahan picks a pass play when they are well within FG range and then Ryan takes a sack that effectively knocks them out of FG range (thus maybe what he is referring to as a 50 FG) The problem is they should have just run the ball and the clock. It's KS call but I suppose DQ could overrule him? I think that play call is as idiotic as the pass play Bevel called in on the 1 yard line in 2014.

IMO, this is worse as they squandered a 25 point lead whereas the 2014 game was back and forth all game and we honestly shouldn't have even been in the position to win in 2014 except J. Kerse made a catch that has long been forgotten (since we lost) but was as amazing as the helmet catch or the bobbled catch last night in the 4th to give NE the first down at the end of the 4th Quarter.

 

Uh, that's just silly. Terry Bradshaw? [emoji6] You can argue him or Montana or whomever on whatever criteria you like, but Brady is clearly more than lucky. Like you said, the great ones elevate the play of those around them.

T

 

Easy now, that play is exalted territory! [emoji3]

Interesting how this game went from what I was thinking was the worst Super Bowl I could recall to perhaps the best in about 45 mins?

Amazing.

T

 

The main difference I'd say is the run first game vs pass first. Brady and manning started towards the end of that era and their numbers significantly pick up as the game evolved. Bradshaw isn't even in the conversation - we all know what really won those rings. I think one of the bigger knocks to me against Brady is that he plays in a quantifiable top heavy conference where 3 qbs have represented the afc Super Bowl all but I believe two years. You can beat the NFC teams on neutral field but their conference is a bloodbath to get to the Super Bowl. I'll use a basketball analogy (I'm a cavs fan fair warning) and I personally compare Brady to Lebron in the sense he'll have all these stats and accolades but to lose in a championship setting even once when you often have the easier road for all but one game is a major knock. Jordan did what Montana had to do essentially - play in a dominating division where there's a lot of contenders. NFC won 13 years in a row during montanas era.

 

What? And after you bought her that nice California!

 

I'm afraid so, Cali or not, it's more like a religious argument with her. [emoji6]
That's why I'd rather chew the fast with you fine people!

T

 

I was wondering the same thing since NFL TV ratings were down this year, and Atlanta is not a great TV market for pro sports. However the ratings were very high -

A win for the New England Patriots, the franchise's fifth with quarterback Tom Brady, the game climbed to tie the second-most-watched Super Bowl ever for an average 113.7 million viewers ........ It's not only near a record for the Super Bowl, it's the all-time most-watched telecast in Fox history.

 

I agree. Montana is a punk. He just got lucky in that Cotton Bowl a long time ago, lucky.

 

Cougar High. I listened to the game on the radio. After a ski trip, we were driving from Santa Fe to Houston.

All true.

Some will remember the critical coaching mistakes for the rest of their lives.

No assistant coach on the staff had the brains to suggest a different approach ?

After Julio's circus catch ! ...simply run the ball and kick a field goal - game over .




Today on the Houston sports radio, they were making fun of the game with clips from the Rocky Movies. Played the Rocky Theme song .

It must have been a long return flight to Atlanta.
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Just watched Gaga do half time show. Tons better than last year's show. Well done.
T

 

Montana had a ring without rice. If montana played in this era and the afc in particular this wouldnt even be a debate. Tom brady is the most protected qb ever and he didnt play with (imo) the greatest nfl player ever going for his throat every play in lawrence taylor. People forget tom brady has the best coach ever on his side too, I guess. The more with less argument is interesting to me. I personally think brady does make receivers better but i think the offensive schemes belichick and co come up with help tremendously. I have not seen receivers who can just have so much separation so quickly in todays nfl and i think thats a big part of it. Tom brady doesnt make them get nearly wide open - the staff telling them how to run routes does.