Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Oh, okay. It was more of a joke. I was just saying that since the 918 is always attacked, and the 918 is generally beating the P1, now we have the 720s beating 918 AND the P1. I was saying that the P1 can never really win a match.

 

lol I just didn't see a reference to any car, so I didn't know that you were speaking of a 720s. I also don't believe that car will be as quick in a straight line or around a track as a 918 or P1. Getting mighty close though.

 

If EVO are to be believed, then it already has half of its own weight, in downforce.
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And?

 

Well you did say that you dont see how the 720s would be able to beat the P1 or 918 around a track, so I posted a snippet of an article from evo where it mentioned it having nearly the same amount of DF the p1 has. And since its lighter by about 250-350lbs and with supposedly over 600kg of DF, i can see it getting pretty close.

 

We'll see! All I know if every race I've seen and every time I talk to owners they just can't believe how much the P1 and 918 destroy cars like the Aventador SV and 675 LT. It will have to close quite a gap.

 

Oh I agree. Even some of the guys on RL don't think it'll match its hype, especially after the P1 saga.

 

P1 only suffers traction issues. If the car had 345 or so rears and proper track tires from the start it would have crushed both other cars. The P1 just can't deal with the 918's mechanical grip under 120 mph. Downforce only works the faster you go, which takes serious balls ina car worth over $1 million. It's certainly the most rapid car when it hooks up.

 

That's conjecture really. Also the P1 overcompensates when equipped with Trofeo Rs. Nothing to indicate that it is faster than the other two. They are all extremely close (I characteristically remember that the LF and the P1 recorded the same 0-100 mph time and were seperated only by 0.1s at the 1/4 mile) and round a track it's more down to the driver really .

 

Yes and when at WOT is discharging and when not it's recharging.

Yes, fairly easy to time.

If the track is dry, track conditions will not affect battery discharge/recharge. And if both drivers are pros, there shouldn't be too much difference there either.

Yes, both cars were on their first hot lap after leaving the pits and doing an out-lap, as the lap timer clearly indicates.

And if you want, same driver, same track, look at Ben Sloss's graphs. Then you have the Balocco and 'ring times, which are notably weak relative to Lamborghinis.

Watch the video, it's Alexander himself that posted that video and claimed the time in the video at 3:02. As I said, a mistake down to a mistake made by someone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpfEG3meAU0&t=180s

You, boyko, and Westview were trying to prove the Grand Tour laps were from a standing start. Westview said that checkpoint 1 was at 200m. You quoted this and said that when you were at Portimao, braking from 300kph occurred at the 150m marker, implying that the laps had to be from a standing start given the measured speeds. That's not a typo, it's a lie, the end.

So now you claim they used RH mode at the 'ring? No they used HL Mode, the same HL Mode they used first time out at Laguna and ran 4-5mph slower on every straight. Then they adjusted it for production.

Grand Tour didn't paint any picture, because we never saw the laps. The likelihood is that all the times were slower.

It's not cherry picking, F1 GP tracks are world renowned circuits but sadly magazine testing nearly always takes place on little karting tracks.

 

Yawn. Mclaren fanboys need more sex and stop watching fetish on the internet.

 

I'm no Ferrari/Porsche/Mclaren apologist. I said it based on having a friend who owns a P1 and a 918. I've spoken to him about just that. Also, basically every video of a half mile race shows the P1 3-4 mph ahead (if it hooks up). I hesitate to quote internet videos though because Lieven has ruined their credility on this board due to his inane over-reliance. I can't give you any second hand accounts of LAF. Just third hand. They're so valuable that unfortunately many are sitting in garages. All three have appreciated more than I would have expected, to be honest.

 

Well you have to admire that approach really. Driving progress forwards as fast as possible.

 

I know that the driver himself claimed it.But the video was looking too fast,so it should be obvious that there is something wrong with the video.You only need commonsense in that aspect.

Regarding graphs if they collect the graph second by second, just messing up with one point can ruin the whole graph and we don't know how were they measured.The mistake is more likely to occur of they were trying to collect all types of forces(like longitudinal, lateral),speeds at the same time.

And even if the GT laps were from rolling start,it doesn't change the fact that P1 lost on that day with that driver.Admitedly P1 wasn't on Trofeos.If it was then I think it would have been fast.

About F1 GP track,we just don't know how P1 would fare.Sebring which is a fast track had 918 faster than P1 according to times you posted.

 

Well how about you raise that criticism with the person who produced the video, claimed the time, posted it on YouTube and left it there for one and a half years instead of me. Hindsight is 20/20.

Well isn't it mighty suspicious, how the Laguna graphs suggest shorter battery life, along with the Sebring and COTA lap videos and driver comments, and the 918 seems unusually slow on Balocco? All just coincidence?

Well that statement about Trofeos made no sense. But I just think Harris's test was better ran and better presented, and more transparent. There's not really any criticism you can level in that respect against the Harris test, whereas the Grand Tour test is a black box with no way of seeing inside it. We likely didn't see any of the actual hot laps in the clips shown, unless he was really drifting on corners. The fact is that nobody can actually prove whether the test was ran from a standing or rolling start, only that the checkpoint 1 speeds match Chris Harris's, which was rolling. It's honestly the worst comparison that's ever been ran in that regard. The driver also crashed the P1 before doing the hot laps, so no, who would be satisfied with the standard of the test? Just goes to show that a big budget doesn't necessarily equal a good production.

If you think it's just the result that's the problem, it isn't, it's the test. Think about this. How would you like to see these comparisons done in future?

a) Like Grand Tour - you don't get to see the laps, no telemetry, and a time gets flung out.

or

b) Like Chris Harris - you see all the hot laps unedited with full telemetry.

b) every time for me, regardless of the result.

Dude - the Sebring P1 lap is invalid. Clear edit at 2:53-2:54 and the driver is not a pro, nor are they flat out given the conversation. So we don't know how fast the P1 is at Sebring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVkwIQPvEt0&t=172s

The P1's main limitation is traction, 1000hp into 2 tyres at <60mph just doesn't go but it's great on high speed corners and very fast under acceleration. Remove that disadvantage by throwing in faster corners and longer straight a la Spa, Monza, Fuji, Suzuka and clearly things shift in its favour. Meanwhile for 918, very good low speed traction, weaker under acceleration, front motor stops at 165mph and RWS steers in same direction about 60mph (like AMG GTR), which provides extra stability but deteriorates ability to turn.

But let me offer the opinion of some owners of both, since people will only say, "Uh, you have no experience etc."

McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - McLaren Life

McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - Page 4 - McLaren Life
McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - Page 4 - McLaren Life

McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - Page 2 - McLaren Life

Clearly some of these magazine tests don't show the full picture. Or am I still putting words in people's mouth, cherry picking, twisting facts etc.? Perhaps I'm Professor Xavier and I'm using mind control maybe?

 

About the Alexander's video,I am not blaming you for claiming the time but anyone with commonsense would have understood that the video was faster than normal speed and I am not even used to seeing online videos.

My other purpose was to show that how would it feel if you claimed someone's error as a lie.

Now about Sebring time,if it was edited like you claim,don't you feel responsible for adding quality data rather than just looking at the same points.Because when I timed F1's good wood time,I carefully looked if some parts of the video were cut or not.I am planning to upload that video with timer after some days.

Also if that was the case for Sebring time,then why did you tried to establish Sebring short track to avoid comparison when the older larger circuit was no longer used?

Are the owners whom you quoted pro drivers or had they provided their cars to them for witnessing the test.Until that is the case,only thing it proves is that P1 is faster in their hands.

 

Like I said, go on McLife and address that comment to the person who made the video, posted it, edited it to show the time and then left it on YouTube for 1.5 years. I don't see why I should receive the criticism for taking just a few hours to notice. The source of my error is also clearly traceable to someone else's error, therefore not a lie, whereas...

Whoopsy, boyko, and Westview were trying to prove the Grand Tour laps were from a standing start. Westview said that checkpoint 1 was at 200m and was therefore before the braking zone (wrong). Whoopsy quoted this and said that when you were at Portimao, braking from 300kph occurred at the 150m marker, implying that the laps had to be from a standing start given the measured speeds. That's not a typo, it's a lie to substantiate an arguing position, the end.

Sometimes I take shortcuts, rather than watching 2+ minutes of video. Sue me. Because the configuration shown on that track page was the older longer circuit. FastestLaps has historic circuits/layouts as well as current ones.

Tracks - FastestLaps.com

We had someone claiming that Harris didn't try at Portimao a while back because Peter Soderberg ran 1:54.7 in an LT but they also didn't notice that he used the shorter configuration. These stupid little minor configuration changes cause confusion, and lots of it and I'm not the only one effected by it.

Technically they don't drive for a living but they are similar standard, definitely comparable with magazine testers, look carefully in the following and you will see both their names mentioned (A West - Alexander West, Mikeyb - Michael Benham):

http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/2%20-SPA/Q1%20Final.pdf

 

That argument is only valid for the P1 as it is missing brake regen.

That's YOUR assumption. Didn't someone already told you there is no comparison track to track? There is already a big difference between COTA and Sebring as one is hilly and one is dead flat. And then there is the corner length for the corners. For track with long corners, the P1 will not be in as bad a disadvantage as the part throttle time will give it recharge time, as that's the only way a P1 can get charged up.

What is that gotta do with anything? Different tracks.

You mean the one where a 918 is clearly faster than a P1? Where a 918 did the fast lap in the very first session while the p1 spent the whole day trying? Even changing to fresh tires?

All I can see is the 918 disappearing into the distance leaving the P1 in the dust whenever a straight appears.

More lies?

When did I ever said The Grand Tour laps are from a standing start? We know you are bitter that the P1 lose badly in that comparison, that upset you greatly. But everyone else had no problems with the results. At that track on that particular day with that particular driver in that particular driving condition the P1 came in dead last by a mile. That's it. Nothing more to it. Move on dude.

More lies or twisting words my dear?

That post wasn't even that far back, it's right there in your quote. Where did I say the 6:57 was ran with Race mode? All I said was that in Race mode the 918 will be around 3 seconds slower. Hmm. Selective quoting perhaps? cherry picking words again? We expect nothing less from you though so it's ok.

Ah, so now you are accusing a British TV show to be biased against a British car company's product, the P1. Interesting take. Do you also realize Jeremy Clarkson is one of the biggest fan boy of the P1? And you are also accusing the show of putting out a lie about doing laps testing cars. Wow, great effort to convince the whole world to see things your way. Not!. You do realized The Grand Tour were hosted by the 3 guys that did Top Gear right? They are only the most watched automotive TV show ever. It's not a mickey mouse youtube video that anyone can fake.

It doesn't matter if The Grand Tour time their laps like Chris Harris did or not. It only matters that they did the testing on the same day under the same condition with the same driver and same tires. Which is the Corsa, default OEM tires for the P1 and LaFerrari, the 918 already was given a handicap by not running tires constructed specifically for it. But then again the Corsa is probably stickier than the ECO rated Cups 2s that came with stock, so that might be a wash.

And the current tracks used are the ones you an only see results from, deal with it. Or you can post twisted posts to magazine's websites to compel them to test at GP tracks instead See if they will listen to you. My guess is they won't, just like anywhere else on the internet, no one listen to you or believe you.

Anyway, I don't know, the Ring is a very well known and demanding track, Laguna Seca is another. Portimao too. So you think these are all 'little karting tracks'. Nice, that really adds to your creditability.

How about Paul Ricard? Do you like that track? perhaps you should organize something there, convince some P1 owner to finance your witch hunt.



Oh wait there is more!!!!

God I loved this!

It has come to my attention that a certain 'god' that you currently favoured, that had posted a 918 video that you LOVED to quote and referenced to about it ran out of juice on the second lap, didn't post the whole story on the texts under his video.

Perhaps you might want to check with him first about the background of the video before you continue using it as an argument.

Gee, could it be that your current 'god', after you had abandoned Alex West, will be abandoning you too?

(Oh I have seen the screen shots of the conversation exchanged), it's juicy!

 

How do you get in contact with these people? Do all supercar owners know each other or something?

 

Become worth many millions of dollars and I'm sure you'll be amazed how your social circle expands. And Whoopsy seems like a genuinely nice guy. That always helps.

 

Dang. I need to step up my game then.

 

You will no doubt recall all the claims when the P1 came out, the best, the fastest on track etc etc. Well get ready for the MK 2 version, same claims but with a lot less BHP, Torque, DF etc........The audacity eh.........Lol

No doubt it will be quickest in its Class, though I would not want to bet against a GT2RS ring time being quicker....

IMHO

 

Not if we're simply measuring the time available for re-gen on a given track, which is the only assessment necessary here.

I've included that in the time at WOT and the time not at WOT. X seconds at WOT at Y kW is still X seconds at Y kW, up or down a hill. You could really benefit from an engineering background.

As already stated, it doesn't matter in this case. There is more time at WOT on COTA and less not at WOT.

Where the 918 was 0.9s slower on lap 2 and 1.5s slower on lap 3. Where the fastest ideal lap was the P1, at 1:29.70. ANd on crappy 91 octane!

And yet still the P1 is the same distance behind it at the end of the lap and the next lap after the 918 pits, the P1 gets round 1-2s faster (video time). That should be a track that benefits the 918 too. I also see the P1 gain significantly between Church and Rocket. This should also be a track that massively favours AWD.

Another lie, that's exactly what you were trying to prove with your 150m crap. You, boyko, Westview, the usual suspects. It matters, because if the times were slower, who cares? Redundant test.

It'll be more than 3s slower.

Under Amazon it's actually a US TV show. And yes, facts matter, strange a concept as that may be to you.

It paints an incomplete picture since many pure track days are at these F1 GP tracks. Nobody really gives a damn about a track with an average speed of 75mph where a Turbo S on PZeros can lap in the same times as a GT3 RS on Cup 2s.

And so far 2 people who own both cars and race GT Open, say the P1 is faster on track (unless you go to a go-kart track), enough said. I'll take that over any 30 minute magazine track test.

I don't see any relevant comments on McLife or YouTube on the issue. It also isn't the only evidence stacked against against the 918's battery life in HL Mode, there's the Laguna graphs and Ben Sloss's statement, the crappy Balocco lap time and multiple owners of both cars who say the 918 isn't batter on track days. If the 918 isn't recharged after a pit and an out-lap totalling 5 minute, it isn't ever going to be recharged really is it? I mean FFS, if it takes longer than that to achieve 100% capacity, it's a track day dog.

 

The GT2 RS could definitely be interesting. Ultra wide tyres and if stripped bare as much as the 997, it could weight 25kg less than the GT3 RS, but would obviously be far more hardcore in nature if that is the case.

 

Why is it that when in E only mode the P1 can not make it up the Hill at Goodwood without the ICE having to Kick in. This is just over 1Klm. In my 918 in E Mode, I can do about 15 Miles on Max throttle before I need to bring in the ICE.?