Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Lol,

These were very enjoying few days...
Just like a game of "cat and mouse"...

Lieven, you can restart your internet presence with the nick "jerry" - suits you very much, haha

Thanks for playing

 

Look, the guy says he doesn't understand how the hybrid charging system works. So of course when you ask him if it's 'possible' it wasn't at full, the answer will be yes. Because someone who doesn't understand something can never be certain.

However, why the strawmanning? Just ask him whether the video begins at the end of an out-lap after pitting. That's the only question that needs be asked, but lap timer gives the answer anyway.

 

Right, so here are the only things I found in those comments that are relevant (well not really) to what we're talking about:

- "Randy is probably a better driver than Chris Harris"
- "And frankly, Randy (nice guy though he may be) is not Chris Harris."
- "you should compare each car with the tyres they come with."
- "I would expect the 918 to be significantly slower on Trofeo than it is on mpsc2. Tyre wasn't designed for the 918 which is a decently heavy car and unlikely to be suited to the Trofeo tyre."
- "but the Cup2's are the best ROAD tyres I have ever used. a set of new TrofeoR's might be faster for the first 2 or 3 laps but thats it."

Is this confusing for you? You've given me links to several posts which never even mention Harris tire test and I'm supposed to do what with that? You seem to be forgetting that we're talking about if Harris tire test was relevant or not and not if the 918 is faster on trofeo's than on it's OEM rubber.

Was that the best you could come up with to debunk Harris test? Two guys who disagree on which of Harris and Pobst is the quickest, one guy who expects the 918 to be slower on trofeo's and one guy with actual experience on the matter who confirms Harris test..
You seem to be too caught up in everything else in here to be able to keep track on what you want to say.

Ok.. so that means what? That he could have gone faster in the P1 but not in the other cars and that K-egg's test driver is super fast?

The only debate around the GT laps comes from you and I doubt they give a **** about whether you accept the times or not.

 

Oh, so you missed, "Corsas are worse tires than the cup2s by a large margin and P1 still won."

McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - Page 2 - McLaren Life

"Have to agree. I think the idea that the trofeo is way faster is wrong. It takes a lot of heat to get it right in the first place and even then the tyre doesn't have an obvious advantage over the mpsc2."

McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - Page 2 - McLaren Life

"The Harris so called test (i prefer to call it a marketing video) was putting up a new set of trofeos against a very well ragged and heat cycled set of Cup2s and I have not seen anyone with any data that corresponds to what CH 'found'."

Do you also notice that you have lots of posts on those two pages with everyone disagreeing with you wrt tyres, including pro-level drivers who own more than one of these hypercars?

As regards the comment on Harris, I think Mikey neglected to notice the sharp downhill at Portimao in the braking zones into T1 and Torre VIP. That certainly explains why 1.0-1.1g was the maximum possible under braking for me. And some of these g-meters give very high spikes. Mikey in another post mentioned seeing >2g at Bus Stop on Spa in the P1. For comparison an LMP2 car makes 2.4g. So I do disagree with his logic on that one, but I can respect and understand why he's arrived at that opinion. He also mentioned that the in-car g-meter on the GT3 RS was optimistic.

No mate, lot's of people on YT don't think those times are possible from a standing start. People also underestimate the affects of familiarity on times, familiarity with both car and track. Case in point Nissan's test driver lapped Laguna Seca in 1:37 in the 2008 GTR, Randy Pobst only managed 1:40.45. So, having a better pro driver doesn't necessarily mean you're getting near another pro who is familiar with the car. And there's just no way to know without reviewing the full laps. Maybe d'Ambrosia put the same effort into those laps as Jenson Button put into the Goodwood Hillclimb, also possible, even likely.

 

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Where is the pop corn again?

 

Still going...I guess Lieven isn't leavin'...ever. Train wreck of epic proportions, this guy.

 

Why would he? He thinks he had me already, that I am losing badly in front of everyone, embarrassing myself greatly on the internet.

But I guess everyone here have a different idea and grasp of reality............................

 

You're the one with excuses. You went from 4 laps, to 4 non-consecutive laps (hence irrelevant), to "there's a chance it wasn't fully charged," despite in-lap, out-lap and dawdle through the lane.... FFS, how long does it take to charge exactly?

 

I agree

 

I read the posts that you first linked to. These new quotes weren't in there.
Also, why do you quote someone who compares the corsa's and the sc2's? I'm critizising you for choosing what's relevant or not relevant and then you quote someone comparing corsa vs sc2 when we're talking about whether Harris trofeo vs sc2 test is relevant or not. C'mon man...

There is a gentleman right here on f-chat who drives a Scuderia who was much faster on trofeo's than the sc2's. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/440084-trofeo-r-sport-cup-2-430-scuderia.html
I've yet to see any evidence at all that the sc2's are faster or even as fast as the Trofeo's. All we have is one guy on mc-life who think they are.. and you. Not exactly stuff that would hold up very well in court. It still doesn't matter though because it's not what we're talking about, tires has been discussed over and over here and I don't want to start again.


Yes I do have A LOT of posts in that mc-life thread, a grand total of three(!). One person (your former go-to-guy for quotes as a matter of fact) agreed that the Trofeo's are faster while another guy disagreed. Then we had one guy who were butthurt that I said positive things about the 918 and didn't praise the P1 as the 2nd coming of Jesus, and one who told me I can't have an opinion on things related to the P1 and 918 if I hadn't driven them at 10/10ths which the bulk of my argument was about.

So no, I didn't notice everyone disagreeing with me wrt tires. If you noticed that then your delusions are far worse than I thought.

I can't be bothered to reply to your arguments about why drivers are faster or slower since it again has been discussed over and over and over.

 

It's human nature to want to argue and correct this idiot. Educate him. But some men can't be reasoned with. Some men just want to (paraphrasing Michael Cain) watch this forum burn.

 

The problem with him I think is that he doesn't interpret what people are saying correctly and that leads to flamewar,insults,arguements,etc.

On to the battery comparision even if it was the lap from the pit,it would mean that 918s battery lasts for atleast 3laps and if one lap is of 2:15 at average,it could last for atleast 6:45min.So it can do well at tracks like nurburgring and large tracks.

 

Well try reading through it, you can search for key words, it's not that difficult but the general consensus is that:

a) There's little difference between Trofeos and Cup 2s, especially bespoke ones; and

b) Corsas are massively inferior to Cup 2s.

Read those first two pages, there are several guys who think Cup 2s are as fast as Trofeos and nobody except you who thinks Corsas are comparable to Cup 2s. That post you linked is a non-pro level driver who isn't anywhere near the car's limits driving laps on different days in traffic.

Here is a same day test of Trofeos against Cup+ - 0.4s difference on 1min lap.
2012 Sport Auto Track Day Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

Cup 2 vs Cup+ - 1.7s-2.4s different on 2+ minute lap.
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Launched - Tyre Reviews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkoaijiEKRg

These are same day, independent tests.

Read on, neither agreed that the Trofeos were the 1+s/min faster that many have claimed. The consensus was, 'slightly faster' 'if the stars are aligned' 'for a short period'. And that Cup 2s were much better than Corsas. It's also fair to point out that these comments apply to standard Cup 2s and standard Trofeo Rs, not bespoke 918/Z06/AMG GTR Cup 2s vs stock Trofeo Rs.

McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - Page 2 - McLaren Life

 

Err.... no. A lap from the pits is an out lap, hence a recharging lap. A new driver to the car is also damn unlikely to turn on Ayrton Senna mode from the get-go. And no, even if he did it would still only mean 2 laps, because it was dying 30s into the 2nd one in the video. And if we play that game, the P1 at COTA did 3 laps not 2.

 

So why does it affect you?

 

Whether I was wrong or not on the corsa vs sc2 matter is completely irrelevant other than for your personal satisfaction. The sad little quote you ended your post with is also taken out of context and it's from someone who was butthurt over the fact that I wasn't the biggest Mclaren fan of all time. That quote applies to you just as much as it applies to me btw but you are probably to snowed in to realise that.

You have no idea what kind of level he's on or if he's driving in traffic so why do you even say that? Don't you feel that you're on thin ice when you have to assume or make things up to construct an argument? He says "on average they are 1.5-2sec faster" and there's actually another guy who also drives a Scuderia who agrees with him. Whether they are near the car's limit or not is also irrelevant as the difference of two tires doesn't only show when you're at the limit of what the car can handle.

Neither of the tests you linked to include the Trofeo R, only the Trofeo which I understand is not the same tire. They are also two tests on two different tracks with two different cars and published 10 months apart. If that is your best attempt of providing some sort of evidence then you should just call it quits.

According to you it seems as if lap times from separate days with the same driver on the same track in the same car are absolutely not valid, but tests done 10 months apart on two different tracks in two different cars with "maybe" the same driver with only one of the two tires we're talking about are to be considered as facts. Great stuff as usual there...

How unfortunate for you though that all this started with me blaming you for saying that things are relevant when it suits you and irrelevant when it doesn't.
Because you're doing exactly that, again.

 

Err no, that quote came from a multi-hypercar owner and pro-level driver.

It came up once before and a video popped up later. This is a rehashed argument that was already flogged to death 2 years ago. The guy in the 430S was behind a hot hatch for much of the video.

Err... yes, the differences do only appear at the limit. What likely confuses many is that the Cup 2s are very good under braking as well as cornering and many amateurs aren't using anywhere near the maximum braking capability, so they only see the cornering at best, which is half the picture.

Very little difference between the two, same wear rating, same price.

Absolutely they're not, correct. In the 2014 Best Driver's Car test, he ran a 1:56 lap in the 918. Later he ran 1:53.98, as you know. So 2s difference with same car, same driver and same tyre and same prep. Whereas the Cup 2s on the GT3 had been thoroughly wrecked when he did the Cup 2 lap, hence why it was 4s slower than the 458S, which is very atypical. A more normal outcome is 2s difference.

Porsche 911 GT3 vs Ferrari 458 Speciale - FastestLaps.com

Meanwhile the Trofeo Rs were fully prepped by Pirelli themselves and the test was sponsored by them. So basically everything a fair test should never do.

If you want more evidence of lap time variance on different days with same driver - 3s here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXP3Eij2GGA
http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2016/01/Corvette-Z06-vs-Viper-ACR-vs-911-GT3-RS-Laguna-lap.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&fit=around%7C660%3A620
2016 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car - Motor Trend

So yeah running laps on separate days for a tyre test is total BS. But battery life is battery life, grip conditions don't affect Vpeaks dramatically in dry weather, or battery drain.

 

I don't know, does it seems like I am wrong or you are right? Look at all the people disputing your 'conclusions'. Seems like you are the only one wrong in here and it shows.

I didn't speculate anything, I am just straight quoting Andrew without adding my words to his, hell I even posted his exact words.

You are the one trying to fill in the blanks with your own imagination and everyone here can see that.

 

Again, it shows how ignorant you are buddy.

The most basic criteria of battery life is temperature

Battery life in cold weather will be different than battery life in normal weather and different from hot weather.


Keep going though, I still have lots of pop corns left.

 

Except you're the one who has to prove he'd done more than 2 consecutive hot laps here. That's the element you dispute from my assessment remember.

So far all you've done is ask a person who admits to not fully understanding the recharging system to verify that they don't fully understand it.

It was 2 consecutive hot laps, lap timer says so.

 

Right, and you're implying a huge temperature difference between the P1 COTA laps and 918 Sebring laps now.

And if you meaning cooling could be an issue in hot weather, then yes, but you know, I really doubt we're seeing that in the Northern Hemisphere in FEBRUARY! And the P1 laps were done in May in Texas. So that's yet another excuse that's backfired on you.

Battery life itself, unlikely to change much. The thermal conductivity delta will be negligible.

 

What has that got to do with anything?

Who? What?

No, the differences doesn't only appear at the limit. It's beyond rEdiculous to even try to suggest such a thing. Or are you actually saying that someone who tracks their car frequently and is driving as fast as he can without going as fast as the car could possibly go would not benefit from having stickier tires?
You're arguing as if all non-pro drivers go round the track with the cruise control set at 25mph.

Then why did you a few hours ago use two tests which were done 10 months apart as a comparision for the tires in question?

ok.. thanks for the info?.. Why exactly are you saying this?

 

Oh right, so laps times at different track by different drivers on different days in different seasons are now comparable? Hahahaha. I think you just poked holes into your own arguments, some would call that self destruction. What happened to times are only comparable when they are done on the same track and same day by same driver on same tires?

Negligible, hahahahahahahahahahahna, and you called yourself an engineer? More LOL. Pretty sure many scientists and engineers in here are laughing so hard they might dislocate their jaws.

See, I really don't need to say much, you provide your own fuel for destruction and you detonate your own bombs. Some says that's a walking train wreck. We called it Mycroft/Lieven/LMFAO.

 

Dude, we had him cornered into such a tight spot that he is debunking his own theories in public. He keep chasing the goal post so much that even he doesn't know where is it.

 

Lieven/Mycroft is the kind of guy that will argue with a marine biologist about shark characteristics because he once saw JAWS.