A note to my Australian Friends

And now coal waste can be dumped into rivers/streams again ... The coal industry, throughout the world, should be on planned closed down strategies. It should be considered a dead industry for this world to move forward.

Aircon,

I'd now like you to tell me why you think Trump is so clever? and why I should be patient and have some faith in him.

Pete

 

I don't know if he'll be any good as President - it's far too early to say either way - but I like him simply because he upsets the Left so much.

 

I'm developing the theory that the more ignorant a person is in the way the world works, they more likely they are to swallow leftist dogma, be it on climate or economics.

Pete, you have no idea what you're talking about. Put the effort in and do some reading outside of the left media. Start by googling EU tariffs.

Here's a site, but I warn you, like most things designed in Brussels, it's a Kafka-esque nightmare to navigate.
European Commission : Market Access database : EU Tariffs

e.g. the EU has no tariffs WITHIN the EU, but literally thousands on products imported from outside the EU. A great deal of the EU's wealth derives from selling cars to the USA, with no tariff, yet in the other direction a 10% tariff applies. You think that's fair?

Do you know that Japanese cars are capped at <10% of the EU market? Do you think people would have been buying sh*tbox Renaults all these years if they could have had cheaper, reliable Toyotas and Hondas? Why do you think Honda makes cars in the UK? Because they like dealing with UK unions?

Trump has the view that successive US administrations have placed other countries interests above the US. He's not going to do that.

 

but the waste from mining rare earth minerals to make windmills and solar panels is OK?

 

Ian, I have told you before.....................

Stop talking sense!

 

I can agree with this, and fair enough, but come on Ian his administration is currently a mess.

I also don't consider myself to be that far left. I understand that business makes the world go around, and it needs to be supported because an employed population solves a huge number of issues.

Ian, gee that is such a stupid comment!. NO waste pouring into streams is okay. It is possible to be efficient, it is not just one or the other.

Pete

 

But the reality is that the majority of "alternative" energy components are made in China, with utter disregard to the environment. Each magnet for windmill generators produces 30,000 tonnes of waste, most of which is left to wash into rivers.

We are all meant to feel warm and fuzzy when we see a hillside covered in windmills, but nobody, least of all the media, ever talks about how they're made. Each windmill consumes more CO2 in its manufacture than it will "save" in its life.

And don't get me started on the by-products of battery manufacturing, which again happens mostly in developing countries. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

Well a positive thing for Trump to do would be to employee some of those unemployed people of his country and make them (windmills, etc.) in the good old USA.

Allowing coal energy to pour waste straight into streams is very backward. Instead we should ensure that ALL energy sources have the appropriate environmental standards, included imported (tax imported if not up to your countries standards to make things competitive, and give the companies that are up to your standard a break). That is what a mature person would do ...
Pete

 

So EU protectionism is bad, but U.S. protectionism will be good?
Honda builds cars in the UK for exactly the same reason as they, and Toyota, Mazda, BMW etc etc build cars in the U.S. - tax advantages and benefits to their bottom lines.

 

And GM/Ford/Chrysler build cars in Mexico for the same reasons ... but soon they won't be allowed to and they will become too expensive to buy.

Didn't work for Holden and Ford Australia so won't work in the US either.
Pete

 

"Clean coal" most expensive new power supply, says BNEF (and not all that clean) : Renew Economy
Next...

 

Well not for the USA as Trump does not appear to care about the clean bit. Maybe for Australia/NZ ... ?

Pete

 

Also is Trump going to kick Honda, Toyota, etc. out from manufacturing in America. I assume not but ...
Pete

 

I agree that "clean coal" is marketing nonsense - it's cowardly politicians trying to have a bob each way and not scare the swinging voters who their pollsters tell them worry about CAGW.

But just who is Bloomberg New Energy Finance? Surprise, surprise, they're consultants for renewable energy. Just one of the huge number of rent-seekers who live off taxpayer subsidised renewables projects.

The entire argument is based on a fraudulent starting point - the need to meet Paris CO2 emissions reductions. Even IPCC is now down to 0.6 degrees warming per century (if you get past the "worst case" alarmism) and there remains no proof that CO2 is the cause. 0.6 degrees - that's less than the margin of error of measuring equipment.

We should simply scrap all the RET legislation. Then build gas where possible and when not practical (e.g. pipeline length) the most efficient coal power stations available, as is happening today all over the world. That's your baseload solved for 100 years, by which time we'll have renewables that are reliable and can compete without massive subsidies.

 

Ian, we can definitely agree that ALL the rhetoric from both sides of the 'energy wars' is driven by vested interests. If renewables subsidies are to be dumped, then so must all the handouts and concessions made to the traditional energy suppliers.
Pure economics doesn't always lead to the best solution; I'm not sure anyone even knows HOW to clean up the mess created by CSG extraction on Queensland's western Downs, much less the cost or who's going to pay? Linc directors perhaps, LOL!

 

Oi.... stop with the sensible suggestions!!!

 

What handouts are these??? I've heard that stated before but I've never seen anything substantiated.

 

Hmmm, while not handouts directly, when I lived in Australia it was pretty obvious that the coal interest had fingers in the political process.

As for CSG, that should just be halted immediately. What a mess that is.

Ian, you make some sensible points but genuinely renewable energy needs some help from governments to get the technology up to speed. Not many other people are going to invest in it ... maybe? ... and we do need it eventually, buy as you say it has to be right.
Pete

 

So there!

Donald J. Trump &#8207;@realDonaldTrump 5h5 hours ago
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Don't believe the main stream (fake news) media.The White House is running VERY WELL. I inherited a MESS and am in the process of fixing it.

 

From thr AFR

Jan 20 2017 at 12:00 PM Updated Jan 20 2017 at 12:00 PM
Save Article
The Thomas Edison of China gives Donald Trump ideas on reviving coal sector


Engineer Feng Weizhong's ingenuity has had Shanghai Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station recognised as the world's cleanest ...
Engineer Feng Weizhong's ingenuity has had Shanghai Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station recognised as the world's cleanest and most efficient source of coal-fired electricity. Grainne Quinlan
by Angus Grigg
Feng Weizhong is confused about proceedings. The engineer, who has been called the Thomas Edison of China for his breakthroughs in cleaning up coal-fired power stations, is unsure about the idea of discussing his life while eating lunch.

Typically such a conversation would happen before or after a meal in China but, with a little explaining, Feng warms to the idea and we seat ourselves around a conference table in the room adjoining his office.

"I often eat here," he explains.

It's just before noon and yet I have still arrived late for my appointment with "the professor" who, as an early riser, eats lunch at 11.30am most days. Not that the perpetually smiling Feng seems bothered by my lateness, as a cup of green tea, complete with a lid to keep it warm, is delivered to each of us.

"I always need more time," says Feng Weizhong, vice chairman of the Shanghai Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station. He works ...
"I always need more time," says Feng Weizhong, vice chairman of the Shanghai Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station. He works "almost seven days a week and most nights". Grainne Quinlan
On this cold but clear Sunday I've come to the Shanghai Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station, which, due to Feng's ingenuity, is recognised as the world's cleanest and most efficient source of coal-fired electricity.

That achievement, which has been verified by the likes of GE and Siemens, has made Feng something of a celebrity in the world of power generation and last year he was given the top award by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers.

But as our lunch trays from the canteen are delivered, it quickly becomes apparent that Feng is an accidental pioneer in his field.

Just a boy

"In 1971, as a 16-year-old, the government sent me to Chongming Island, as all the schools had been closed," he says. "I was just a boy."

Shanghai Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station is running at 46.5 per cent efficiency: much higher than Australian generators.
Shanghai Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station is running at 46.5 per cent efficiency: much higher than Australian generators. Dave Tacon
That is Feng's one-line explanation for the chaos of China's Cultural Revolution, in which Mao Zedong closed schools and banished much of the population to the countryside to "learn from the peasants". Somewhat reluctantly the 62-year-old Feng elaborates, saying he received only five years of primary school education and then spent a few years "playing" and reading at home before being sent to Chongming Island, just off the coast from Shanghai.

"I was lucky as my two older brothers were sent to Jiangxi," he says in reference to the poor mountainous province that became home to many of Shanghai's "sent down youth" during the Cultural Revolution.

On Chongming Island, Feng, was assigned to the local coal-fired power station as an apprentice, and thus began the professional life for this entirely self-taught engineer.

"Before I went to Chongming, my father said to me, 'You have no choice but to study by yourself now'," he says. "He believed the country would go back to normal one day ... and then society would need educated people again. I always remembered that ... and since then, in all my the spare time, I have read books and studied about technology."

Lunch from the canteen is served in a conference room next to Feng Weizhong's office.
Lunch from the canteen is served in a conference room next to Feng Weizhong's office. Grainne Quinlan
With the explanation of his early life mostly complete, Feng pauses to suggest we should start by eating the cold egg custard, which is treated like a soup and comes in its own bowl. We unpack our chopsticks and spoon from the plastic wrapping and start eating, as Feng explains that he stayed on at Chongming Island after the Cultural Revolution and, at the age of 29, was made general manager of the power plant, which employed 1800 people at the time.

As the sun streams in through the second-floor window of the office block attached to the Waigaoqiao power plant, I comment on the perfect blue sky day, which has been a rarity in Shanghai this winter.

China's real coal problem

With China's old industrial economy picking up over recent months, pollution readings have spiked to levels not seen for three years or more. Demand for winter heating has made the problem worse and, for much of January, a blanket of toxic smog has covered China &#8211; pushing air pollution readings 20 times above what is considered safe by the World Health Organisation.

Feng explains the problem is coal, but not coal-fired power plants. "In Shanghai, power plant emissions account for about 2.3 per cent of the area's smog," he says. "It is almost nothing."

Like many of Feng's statements this requires further explanation, and he goes on to say that most power stations across China have the necessary filters to all but eliminate smog-causing sulphur oxides (SOx), nitrogen oxides (NOx) and dust.

"Two years ago in Beijing, all the coal-fired power plants were shut down ... but nothing happened [to the pollution levels]," he says.

Feng explains that only half of China's coal is burned by power stations, compared with nearly 100 per cent in the United States and Australia. The other half of China's coal consumption comes from steel mills, glass-making factories, cement plants and other manufacturers who often run their own small, highly inefficient boilers.

"The available pollution control measures are expensive and not suitable for these smaller units," he says. "Their emissions are maybe 100 times greater than ours."

And while he says the government is trying to clean up the old industrial economy, it will take years. "I think we can talk about that [blue skies] after 2030," he says.

By this time, I have moved on to the preserved pork with snow peas in my lunch box, while Feng is more focused on the scrambled eggs in tomato. Along with the green tea there are a few bottles of water and the waitress has also delivered us each a small carton of vanilla yoghurt for dessert.

Feng, a married father of one and recent grandfather, has shed his initial reluctance to speak about the Cultural Revolution and our lunch has become an easy and frank discussion about China's coal use and environmental problems.

5E revolutionary technology

"In China, we can't avoid using coal," he says as our tea cups are refreshed with hot water. That said, he believes China's coal consumption is at or near its peak, but will not decline significantly over the coming decades.

"Therefore, the only way to contain the air pollution and CO&#8322; [carbon dioxide] is to increase the efficiency of China's coal-fired power stations," he says.

This is where Feng's so called "5E technology" has revolutionised the industry, as it has delivered the world's lowest emissions of CO&#8322;, dust and other pollutants while also having the world's highest efficiency levels &#8211; typically plants have one or the other but not both. That means less coal needs to be burned for every kilowatt of electricity produced. Feng has achieved these gains by taking existing technology from the likes of GE and Siemens and making it work together more efficiently.

In the process of perfecting this system, he has registered more than 40 patents, but it's not as simple as selling his discoveries to other power stations around the world. Feng says he's like a coal doctor, who first diagnoses problems at the plant, designs a unique solution then gets a construction team to build it.

"The whole process takes more than a year," he says.

More efficient than Oz

The result, when measured in net efficiency terms, has the Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station running at 46.5 per cent efficiency, compared with levels in the low 30 per cent range for Australia's ageing stock of coal-fired generators. And Feng says he can also achieve these efficiency levels when retrofitting older power stations, not just by building new ones.

This is where the professor and many environmentalists diverge. They would argue that the only hope of limiting global temperature increases to 2 degrees or just above is to phase out the use of coal in favour of renewable energy and, in some cases, nuclear power. But Feng believes this is unrealistic and is therefore all about prolonging the life of coal by reducing emissions until such time that carbon capture and storage (CCS) might be feasible.

Not that he's optimistic about the technology in its present form. "There's no way it [CCS] can work now ... it has a long way to go," he says. "I think after 2030 we can start talking about that."

Having satisfied ourselves with the main courses, we both move on the two types of pickled cabbage, sweet corn and the white rice, which is always eaten last in China. More tea is poured and Feng explains the coal savings his technology can achieve. Bouncing numbers off one of his students, who has helped with occasional pieces of translation during lunch, Feng says by retrofitting a plant in Jiangsu province with his technology, he increased the net efficiency by 2 percentage points.

Trump pays attention

"That's an enormous amount," he says when I clearly look unimpressed by the small number. "We reduced their coal usage by 170,000 tonnes a year."

And Feng believes he can do even better on efficiency. At the Pingshan Phase II power station in Anhui province, which will be completed at the end of 2019, Feng believes he can crack the magic 50 per cent net efficiency level.

"That has never been done before and will be a huge milestone for the world," he says.

The Pingshan project has garnered attention from all round the world, including the Department of Energy [DOE] in the United States.

Feng says, even revels in the fact, that as Trump was beating up China for stealing US intellectual property, the DOE visited him in Shanghai in September and this was followed by a visit from progressive think tank, Center for American Progress, which is compiling a report on Feng's technology for the incoming administration.

"Trump wants clean coal," says Feng. "The DOE is preparing a document for Trump. They are very interested in our technology and achievements."

Of most interest to the DOE is Feng's belief that his Pingshan project can achieve emission levels below the tough new standards set by the Obama administration in 2015 when it agreed a climate deal with China.

"It was believed without CCS these standards could not be met [by the coal industry] ... no way ... never," he says. "Then I gave them the answer."

Feng believes his new plant can achieve emissions of just below the required 636 grams per kilowatt hour of electricity produced.

"For the last 100 years we always used United States technology; now we can give them the advanced technology. I feel very proud of this," he says.

Work all the time

The symbolism of China, the rising power, providing technology to the US is not lost on Feng. "That would be very nice. Maybe we could retrofit a plant for them," he says.

Lunch is winding down and Feng needs to get back to work, even though it's Sunday.

We both pierce our yoghurt cartons with straws as Feng explains he works "almost seven days a week and most nights".

That's not surprising given he is a guest professor at two universities, runs a power station, is retrofitting three others and has another under construction.

"I always need more time," he says.

Menu

Canteen,

Shanghai Waigaoqiao No. 3 power station

Egg custard

Preserved pork with snow peas

Scrambled eggs and tomato

Scrambled eggs with prawns and broccoli

Sweet corn

Pickled cabbage

White rice

Yoghurt

Green tea

Still water

 

Shame there was no real information on what is actually being done /used in this ^^^^ article.

 

Whatever he is doing , the claim is that it has been verified by Siemens and GE.

 

here you go, Minerals Council of Aus document: http://www.minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidies_in_Australia_FINAL.pdf

of course what this DOESN'T show is the cost to the nation of pollution and cleanup from old technologies; or the nature of 'front loading' new technologies to nurture them. Why on earth is there any government subsidy for technology that's 150 years old?

 

yes I saw that, but still would be interested to know WHAT the breakthrough is.

 

Really Pete? And your evidence is what? Let me guess, absorbing 20 years of green-left media bias.

The facts are that the lobbying spend by the green-left and renewables interests far outweighs that of conventional resources industries. Why else does coal get 4% of subsidies and renewables 95%?

As for CSG. It used to be called Natural Gas, because it occurs naturally and works it's way to the surface in many ways, one of which is dissolved in water, hence the dramatic "burning tap water" imagery. It's also comes out of oil wells and used to be flared off, because of the difficulty of capturing and transporting it.

When fracturing techniques were developed to release gas from coal seams, cowboy operators rushed in and used toxic chemicals. They have long since been regulated out of business, in fact Australia now has a very well regulated CSG industry. But you'd never know, because the media isn't interested in the facts, only in their anti capitalist agenda.

Extracting and burning Natural Gas from coal seams is infinitely better for the environment and humans than mining and burning coal. Australia has huge reserves and we could and should have the lowest energy costs in the world, thus ensuring competitive industries to employ people.

But hey, it's much better to import windmills from China isn't it?