Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

And what do you think this proves? You're comparing cars with 560-630hp against a car with 280hp on a track with an average speed of >105mph. What on earth do you think the outcome will be? Do you not understand physics and resultant forces. It takes ~30% of the BAC's power just to maintain 105mph, vs <15% for the other two vehicles. But I think the other times clearly show that the LFA is generally not >5s faster than a GTR.

How do you suppose the BAC Mono would fair at Monza?

And a 12C GT3 effectively did <6:30 with Kevin Estre, with an Audi holding him up at the end (probably one of the quickest GT drivers in the world) and Alex and Mikey drive within ~2-3s of him in the GT Open. For comparison Randy Pobst was >3s behind Nissan factory time with the GTR at Laguna and the likes of Sport Auto can be 15-20s down on factory drivers at the 'ring. Mikey was only 1s down on the very fastest at RBR too, Alex about 2s. So what you're trying to read into the Mono Goodwood laps is preposterous, there's no guarantee he was even trying there for a start.
http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/1%20-%20ESTORIL/Quali2.pdf
http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/1%20-%20ESTORIL/Quali1.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A9vin_Estre
http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/5%20-%20RBR/openentrenos2.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWcxezhxRC4

 

Ditto wrt Grand Tour Portimao laps... sport.

 

About 10s down on one actually. Don't forget they're restricted to 500ps though.

 

Relative to the times it makes on shorter tracks it really isn't and the SV and AMG GTR (2s faster with Sport Auto, same driver) prove that.

That was the leak.

Actually on a track day, over multiple laps it plainly isn't. Fact is that the 918 in HL Mode and LaF can only do 1 lap of Sebring (as Andrew Aquilante video shows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGtXJJEbAGg) or Silverstone GP without needing a cool down lap. The P1 can do 2-3. Magazine tests do not give the full picture. Pro-level drivers who own all 3 say the P1 is faster than the 918 on track. That means way more than a 30 minute mag test.

 

Says the guy who claimed braking from 300kph in 150m, endless endurance in HL Mode, and 4 consecutive laps and proved wrong on every single one.

 

Speaking of physics,you seem to make a lot of mathematical error in numbers calculation. How can the average speed be >105mph when even the lap record there is has lesser average of 104.575mph.

Secondly I already told that LFA had already done 1:24.8 at good wood,if you think I am lying then how about we use your favourite YouTube
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pR66D4BsMMc
Also you can't compare factory times to magazine times.Using your logic SV also cheated at ring if LFA cheated.

I also know that sport auto ring time are slower than factory drivers.I just used those times to prove that mag doesn't represent full potential of racecars for that you need GT drivers who are used to high down force.

I also know how fast a GT3 car is around a track,it isn't that I don't check the qualifying times for those cars every year.

 

Approximate head calc (without calculator). Send a P1/918/LaF there and it would average well over 105mph, vs ~75mph for Anglesey coastal. Different ball game.

I have no idea whether the LFA cheated but people were definitely suspicious of the time. And 1:24.8 sounds more normal. But heh, I guess that makes my point about mag testers being 2-3s behind pro factory drivers (even 1up vs 2up). So given that Alex and Mikey are 2s behind the best GT Champions 1up vs 1up, I think that qualifies them for an opinion.

I'm well aware of that, I was using that as a point on driver capability. To be honest I think a GT Champion would probably be faster in a GT racecar or a road car than a top single-seater pro, simply because that car is closer to what they're used too.

Right then, well look at the two people I named on those timesheets and then refer back to the point you were trying to make about the BAC Mono lap at Goodwood. The guys are literally 1-2s behind a Guy (on Estoril and RBR) who can run 6:2X laps of the 'ring in a 12C GT3 (lap record holder for 24hr configuration) and other top GT pros/champions, so when they actually own these cars and are familiar with them, their opinion matters a lot more than what a usually slower driver finds in the space of 20-30 minutes in a mag test. Being that fast and actually owning the cars and driving them regularly makes them closer to factory drivers.

http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/5%20-%20RBR/openentrenos2.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWcxezhxRC4
http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/1%20-%20ESTORIL/Quali2.pdf
http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/1%20-%20ESTORIL/Quali1.pdf

 

Good one sport!

So embarrassing for the mighty p3, the touted "track monster" can't even release an official n'ring time...let alone any video proof. Faillll, just like you sport

 

Ditto for Grand Tour Portimao laps.

Didn't see any 'ring video for the 997 GT2 RS either.... son... or LaF... old boy.

 

Those cars could do more than 105mph for sure but not cars like MP4-12c etc without a factory driver.As I said LFA was extensively tested by Autoweek and other magazine. While F1,GTR,Murcielago were tested only for may be one lap.And F1 was faster than Auto weeks LFA time,so time isn't out of the world.So if you still doubt the LFA time then okay I am at loss of words.Also that means F1,Nissan GTR and other cars in the leaderboard would be faster by at least 2s if tested extensively.

Also just look at F40s Tsukuba and Suzuka time,none of its other lap times reflect similar outcome.Only logical explanation is more laps yield better results.

People who were suspicious of LFA were definitely haters for me.You will get people who doubt lap times in every forum.

I have to correct that point you made about nurburgring.Firstly when combining two tracks some of the length will be lost for sure.Secondly,the GT3 car would have to brake for the last corner in nordschleife but not in 24hr configuration.So time cannot be calculated.

Also what's more disappointing about P1 GTR is that it is even slower than an F1 GTR which is supposed to be its predecessor.

Also going by A Wests comment,he hasn't tracked 918,so you can't use him.Also if in mag they clocked faster time in 918 than P1,you can't claim that they cheated unless you have some proof.You are in my eyes making 918 look slow just like some guys were making F1 look slow in previous pages.

 

I understand it must be really hard for you sport...you're beloved p3, marketed openly as the end all be all cant even post a ring time/video. Mentioning other cars lack of proof doesn't change the fact that the p3 cant hack it at the ring. wow talk about embarrassing, just like you.

Ferrari openly say they don't care about Ring lap times. Nor should they when a lafer is more than 2x the price of your p3. talk about epicccccc fail for the p3

 

Only a fool would believe it's slower than an SV though. And it lapped the 'ring with the same battery use rate and roof as the production car, they didn't have to alter it like Porsche did.

How convenient that a different set of judgement criteria apply to the LaF.

 

Pretty much any McLaren is faster than an LFA.
Lexus LFA vs McLaren 570S - FastestLaps.com

Well back to the original point. The LFA leaves the pits and does 1 hot lap. The Mono has done about 10 laps. The original point was to compare the standard of driving yes? So you're using hot laps done after a pit vs multiple consecutive laps, with unknown level of effort in a car with half the power on a fast track with a 105mph average speed. It was a silly comparison. Not sure what you hoped to achieve by it really. All you've shown is that magazines testers are slower than top pros in the same car by more than the driver you were arguing wasn't much good.

People hated the LFA for the same reason they hate the NSX. The NSX is slower than a car half its price and the LFA was slower than a car 1/6th its price. It's basically like if a 12C or LT was slower than an Evora V6. The only thing you can love out of that tragedy is the LFA's engine note.

More laps do equal faster times, which is why magazine tests with unfamiliar drivers are a load of c0ck, especially if the car is more tricky to master but more rewarding thereafter. I mean, I suppose some people will expect mag testers to find the limits of an AM-RB001 inside 20 minutes too.

The F1 GTR was a full-on GT1 class racecar though, the P1 GTR is a gentleman's racer, deliberately designed to be stable at the expense of cornering speed, so it's not really a predecessor. You can see it in the difference in tyre dimension front to back. That said it compares favourably against the FXXK.
Alexander West takes his LaFerrari FXX K and P1 GTR to Silverstone GP - FastestLaps.com

Now if you increased front end grip with wider tyres, and stripped it down to 1200kg, it would be a different story. For a fast track car though, the 12C GT Canam is probably the fastest of the recent range.

McLaren 12C GT CAN-AM - Introduction

Where are you getting your F1 GTR times from BTW?

Mikey has though, and his opinion is the same. Also, I wasn't sure whether Alex said he tracked it once, like he does for all his cars ('at least once'), but he wasn't inspired to do so again, citing weight handicap.
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/58306-mclaren-p1-vs-porsche-918-spyder-both-trofeo-r-tyres.html#post1194426
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/58306-mclaren-p1-vs-porsche-918-spyder-both-trofeo-r-tyres-4.html#post1308498
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-p1-f1/58306-mclaren-p1-vs-porsche-918-spyder-both-trofeo-r-tyres-4.html#post1306034

I didn't say the mag testers cheated in the 918, you seem to deliberately try to misunderstand everything I write. What I said is that you can't learn how to drive a P1 at its fastest in the space of half a dozen laps coming at it fresh for the first time, whereas with the 918 the AWD and torque vectoring simply make it far easier to access the full performance. So what you end up with is a car driven at say 85% of its capability vs a car at say 95% of its capability and you're looking at a car whose pace last 6 minutes vs a car whose pace lasts 2-2.5 minutes and then people complain unless the comparison has the McLaren on a grossly inferior tyre on top of that. That doesn't sound like the complete picture to me. And for that, I refer to people who have far more track experience with the cars in question and they say that the 918 is not the fastest on track days, but is the best point-to-point on the road.

 

i recently got the drivers licence and bought myself a porsche 944 2.5 NA and its fitted with Toyo R888 tyres so won't be able to drive it until the snow melts and it becomes dry

 

Regarding good wood time if you read my post carefully I said Factory Driver.Also at good wood cornering speed matters otherwise Lotus Exige can't beat Murcielago and can't match GTR besides it even has worse topspeed and acceleration than Bac Mono.So 1:27.62 for Bac Mono is terrible indeed.Even a 2 Eleven does in 1:28s.

Losing to a cheaper car isn't something new we have a C6 ZR1,R35 GTR (530)even 480hp on some occasions beating an Enzo/GT and we have LP560-4 outmatching CGT on tight tracks and we even have a 430 Scuderia matching Enzo and not to mention 458 Italia beats it at half the price.Time doesn't stop just because the car is expensive.

Oh regarding F1 GTR times,I get them fro racingsports cars.Anyway here are the lap times
Track F1 GTR P1 GTR
RBR 1:23.798 1:33
FIA GT Championship Zeltweg 1997 - All Session Laps - Racing Sports Cars
Seca 1:18.895 1:27
FIA GT Championship Laguna Seca 1997 - All Session Laps - Racing Sports Cars
Spa 2:08.984 2;20
FIA GT Championship Spa 1997 - Racing Sports Cars
The above tracks are in same configuration except spa but lap times are more or less the same for spa due to lower grip and bumpy surface in 90's configuration and high grip asphalt in new circuit.Also wasn't it claimed by Manufacturer that P1 GTR would be considerably faster than GT3 car.

Regarding cheating I have observed that you claim that P1 was sandbagged when it loses and the driver purposely drifted P1 so that 918 wins etc.

 

maybe we should just nickname this "the hypercar thread"

 

"Only a fool would believe" is not a valid argument sport, becasue you are indeed a fool.

Case in point:

"Only a fool would believe" the grand tour laps are not valid and or false. A heavily favored british show purposely sabotaged the british manufacturer.

"Only a fool would believe" the p3 has to win every single head to head. If it does not, test is void.

"Only a fool would believe" Apolo's 918 is a factory altered "super" 918

"Only a fool would believe" the $3.5MM tuner P1 LM is comparable to a 918 WP

See sport ! (FYI you're the "fool" in all my examples, wasn't sure if you would be able to figure it out on your own)

Sorry the p3 can't hack it at the ring. Maybe you'll get em next time!

 

Haha, you can repeat that a million times and it will still not be true and no one will ever believe you. Everyone has their own brain and can see and read for themselves. And their conclusion is exactly opposite to yours.

And everyone also decided you are just full of lies Mr. Liar, not just me

You might as well crawl back to McLarenLife where you are only considered as a "not-reliable" instead of a flat out liar in here.

It is pointless for you to still be here, no matter what you post no one believe you, and everyone WILL dispute whatever you typed, if not me then there will be someone else, a lot of someone else.

Unless of course you enjoyed being embarrassed on the internet everyday and you considered that an honour to be the most infamous poster ever in the history of the internet.

You win that award by a country mile!

See? You actually win now.

 

Out of control....it has mutated well beyond the scope and spirit of the thread. Mod's please do something...

 

There is a step change in performance coming in the new regular production exotics that will cease the need for this debate. Just wait a week or two more.

 

I lurk around and come here to learn, dont post often. This guy has seriously ruined information, discussion, and overall community of enthusiast. Can mods please step in

 

Yes but why are you using laps of Goodwood when you can see how quick a driver they are right here, when they're actually flat out (look for Alexander West and Michael Benham). Note Kevin Estre is Nurburgring 24hr lap record holder.

http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/5%20-%20RBR/openentrenos2.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWcxezhxRC4
http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/1%20-%20ESTORIL/Quali2.pdf
http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/1%20-%20ESTORIL/Quali1.pdf
http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/6%20-%20MONZA/opencarrera1.pdf

So who cares about that Goodwood video. You also have no idea what the conditions were like, where as all the above is same day and maximum effort. The Monza race lap is especially impressive, nice pass here too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-NKTrgTVAk

And no, a BAC Mono will suffer on faster tracks anyway as Sabine Schmidt's lap of Spa proves. I personally couldn't tell you how fast that is or isn't for a Mono 2.3 at Goodwood, for that you would need Oliver Webb to lap it. But like I say, conditions, effort (no gloves, racesuit etc.).

The difference is that they are newer cars vs more expensive older cars. When you have a newer, more expensive car losing to an older, less expensive car that's just embarrassing. Hence why people often criticised the LFA and NSX.

I think they said that the P1 GTR would be faster on some of the faster tracks, and the evidence is that it is faster on Spa, and probably Monza too.

Nah man, that was just me subtly making the point that those clips in the GT video weren't even from the hot lap, unless the driver was sandbagging. Frankly I think the driver didn't put in much effort with any of the cars, hence the times.

 

That depends on whether it's a fool listening to it.


An American show, that never showed the full lap videos, and considerable evidence that they used a flying start.

Only a fool would keep calling it P3, when it holds the fastest lap time on about a dozen different tracks.

Ask Boyko what it dyno'd. It's a strong example, faster than most other 918s. There are some freak P1s out there too hitting 200mph in 20s.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143421414-post12263.html

Why isn't the P1 LM comparable? You've already been set straight by another member on this, it's not a modified P1 GTR at all.

I'm afraid it can, but the 918 seems to have been beaten by a Huracan at both the 'ring and Balocco.

 

Call me a liar as much as you want but the only difference is that I've actually proved that you and at least 1 other person has lied a combined total of 4 times.

Braking from 300kph in 918 in 150m.
Infinite endurance in HL Mode.
4 consecutive laps.
Faulty lap timer.
160-80mph in 80m.



Then of course we had boyko and his, the braking point is after the pit exit at Portimao, which triggered the greatest string of BS ever posted on a car forum in the whole of history. I've never read so much crap of a car forum since a guy on nasioc claimed that he crashed an Impreza through a house because 'the boost just kicked in'.

 

True.