F cars with cam belts

I've had my 91 348 for two years and major service done just prior to purchase. I've been reading all I can about the car and this forum is a great reference. I plan on doing the majority of services myself. I have a lifetime of experience wrenching on 60's and 70's Italian cars in the family collection, Ferrari, Alfa, Lancia, Fiat, Maserati.

The belt service thing has me wondering, I've read and seen pictures of worn belts from mal-alignment, and worn bearings but I haven't come across a story written in first person about a belt failure. It's alway, "I heard about a guy...", never "I tried to start MY car today and holy s*#t that sounded bad (and expensive)" Is it because everyone gets the belts changes so often?

Also, has anyone done the math: number of F cars with cam belts X average cost of service / service interval to estimate the annual $ spent on these things? Just wondering.

Between me and my brothers we have owned 6 Alfa V-6's for street, track day cars and an SCCA ITS car and drive the piss out of 'em and never had a belt issue. I know...different engine but makes one curious.

 

512bb/i
Testarossa
512
308gt4
308
328
348
355
360
550
456
575
612
F40
288gto

That's a lot of cars.

 

New around here aint'cha?

 

So go introduce yourself on the 348/355 forum and post some pics of your 91.

 

Can't we just talk about engine and gearbox oil preferences and change intervals instead?
Alden

 

Bones

It happens but not too often. There are fchaters who have come here to tell their tale of woe. There are a few home wrenches here who have bought these cars cheap and resurrected them for a profit too.

Where are you racing ITS?

I'm a SCCA calcluber but racing Majors out East this year in T2.

 

I had a variator fail on a Twin Spark Alfa. We're not sure if it was incorrectly installed by the mechanic (600-700 miles prior) or it was faulty. The Alfa specialist whom I then decided should do all the work on my car told me he'd never seen one fail.

All pistons had varying sizes of holes where the valves said "Hello". Scrapped the engine and got a replacement one.

I have since read there was recall for the same thing on a 360, fortunately mine has been recalled.

 

I bought a V8 with belt 'history' but no sign of tensioner work etc. It was the latter, rather than the belt that concerned me! Since purchase I have replaced belts every 2 years (please don't flame), with other Associated components as required on inspection and depending of OEM or upgraded. I have wrecked a VW Polo via a snapped belt. Keeping the mondial in boxes whilst I have kids and build a house has really helped extend service intervals too!


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I was told that pre90's cars should have the belt changed every two years. I did with my 83 Mondial, not sure where I heard that or how valid it is.

 

Every two? Never heard that before.

Ferrari says "every three" for the V8 cars but most can go longer than that. But then, this is from FNA, so you guys over there may have a different scheme.
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I have had and done my own majors on....

308, 348, TR, F40, Mondial t, and CS

I have done 3, 4 and 5 year intervals and every time on every car the belts, bearings, etc, looked and felt essentially new Half the time I have felt like I'm wasting my time, but I do them anyway because that service bullletin keeps me up at night.

Btw... my cars get tracked and driven. So they aren't just sitting and getting polished. [emoji3]


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Oh my, a thread on belts...
Wade: just for the record, the OEM owner's manual for both my '89 328 is print number 513/88 (for EURO cars) it says indeed "every two years". Then came the bulletin/letter you posted, which says "every three". Today, I have the belt change done every four years.
Rgds

 

I know the cam belt thing has been beaten to death. Like a lot of owners, I feel the recommended service interval is ridiculously short considering the limited use these cars see. Also the original interval was much longer and subsequently shortened by the factory for a variety of reasons. One reason I heard from a service mechanic was a complaint from service dealers to the factory about falling revenue. SO shorten the cycle and increase service work. Hence my question about how much cash this is driving towards the dealers. The later engines requiring engine out is not something that routine European car mechanics are willing to do. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy BUT....

@fatbillybob - SCCA ITS in NE Ohio.

I'm considering buying a 308 engine car. A driver that needs work, Prefer GT 4 or Mondial. I have a thing for unloved versions of certain marks. That's why I have 5 116 series Alfas!

 

I have lost count of how many belt changes I have done on my cars and others. I have never removed a belt that looks terrible or cracked. But, I have seen many bearings that are on their way out, water pumps that are leaky, coolant hoses that are cracked, connector with disintegrating boots, engine mounts in pieces, and leaky main seals.

It's those other reasons that we service these cars on a regular 4-5 years basis and not the timing belt breakage thing.

 

Like a 348 that still has the original water pump. I never took up gambling because it didn't work for me.

 

Surprised at that one..... thought it was part of the beginning of the "return to chains" era for Ferrari.

 

Yes, the 3-year letter from FNA became the new rule.

The 1991 owner's manual for the 348 stated a replacement at 52,500 miles (no yearly requirements). All other service intervals recommended an inspection (see the *), except the first one.
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The opinions on these topics are like ass$oles, everyone has one, and we all think ours doesn't stink! And we all love to hear ourselves talk (or type). At least we are discussing something that provide abundant pleasure, driving a great car. We could be wasting our time discussing less enjoyable topics, like politics.

 

The three years was arrived at because we did have failures at less than 5 on the 355. 348 at 5 years was pretty dodgy but usually OK.

Sorry but your conspiracy is BS. There was no shortage of work at the good dealers even if Ferrari did care.


And this conversation is just as idiotic as 20 belt threads ago or 200 ago. Try doing a search on the topic, you might just learn something.

 

@rifledriver - Belts were mentioned in the thread topic, if you're tired of these "idiotic" topics, don't click on em. I did do a search on the topic and have read the threads. The conspiracy mentioned was tongue in cheek.

Please clarify the "we had failures...". Meaning the chat members? Owners in general? Or do you work in service department?

 

My response would be if it is idiotic why start them?

 

From the volume of discussions about the issue it seems some don't find it idiotic. Yes it may be redundant, but nonetheless useful and even entertaining to some. Consider it a rite of passage for the newly initiated owners of cam belted Ferraris.

 

Odd, yes. The U.S. Version owner's manual for the 1989 328 (535/88 - 800) show the exact same as what I posted for the 348. I.e. 52,500 miles and no yearly interval requirements.

 

From an engineering or design point of view, why would there be such a large discrepancy from one engine to another regarding belt service intervals? I can't imagine there is a huge difference in belt quality/construction. I can understand the number of valves per cylinder increasing the number of lobes per cam that would increase resistance on the belt but what other variables would significantly impact a belts useful life?

 

I think that even manufacturers don't know. A classic case in point was the volvo 960 specified 60k belt change. As cars came in with smashed valves...yup even volvo was using interference design, the interval was dropped to 45k then 30k then 15k!