'Official' F12M Rumours and Launch

LdM's decision is quite easy to understand. Ferrari has always been about making beauty out of function. (And by the way, some of the very nicest designs were not from PF at all - including Scaglietti's 250 GTO. Scaglietti was the body builder and an expert in fashioning metal). With the huge investment in their wind tunnel and the need to compete using aerodynamics, bringing design in house was a necessary function to smooth out the design process. PF is not Ferrari. Enzo himself changed from PF to Bertone and Scaglietti on occasions, for similar reasons.

People always take time to adjust to a new design and the models we all now laud as PF brilliance, were often not heralded as such. In my view, not too much has changed other than Ferrari's continual advancement in aerodynamics - something which would have affected PF too. I remember that PF's original idea for the 458 was much more like the 430, with external vents. LdM sent them back to the drawing board, so this was even more Ferrari than PF.

 

LdM's decision is quite easy to understand. Ferrari has always been about making beauty out of function. (And by the way, some of the very nicest designs were not from PF at all - including Scaglietti's 250 GTO. Scaglietti was the body builder and an expert in fashioning metal). With the huge investment in their wind tunnel and the need to compete using aerodynamics, bringing design in house was a necessary function to smooth out the design process. PF is not Ferrari. Enzo himself changed from PF to Bertone and Scaglietti on occasions, for similar reasons.

People always take time to adjust to a new design and the models we all now laud as PF brilliance, were often not heralded as such. In my view, not too much has changed other than Ferrari's continual advancement in aerodynamics - something which would have affected PF too. I remember that PF's original idea for the 458 was much more like the 430, with external vents. LdM sent them back to the drawing board, so this was even more Ferrari than PF.

 

I think at the time Ferrari could neither afford nor necessarily wanted to buy PF (remember FIat/FCA has massive debt - LdM fearing someone else might do so (as they did) wanted to ensure Ferrari design was self-sufficient. Right call!


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https://www.flickr.com/photos/nike_747/33030270715/sizes/k/

I posted for the color. Nice one

 

Too much Alfa 4c in this - I think Ferrari would be much more creative with an Aperta considering it wouldn't need a regular retractable roof. Look at the F60


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Thanks for the explanation. Very helpful. I didn't know about the 430.

I'm not so sure about that, my memory is that Ferrari had after everything income of nearly $500m. I believe PF was sold for something around $40m. Hardly chump change but seemingly doable. Never the less this is now history.

This looks like Blu Corsa and I think it suits the car very well. I also think the Aperta version is pretty well done, I agree the rear looks heavy, but its someone's guesstimate using PS or other editing tools. I think pretty good. And very interesting wheels, especially with the blue tint to them.

 

I am in Love now!!! Just like all designs they eventually grow on you.
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You are in love with a bad photoshop?

 

call it what you will it looks good to me! lol I didn't think this looked better than the F12. But it does now. Considering I was trying to get a 675LT that has recent come up for sale in my price range. Owners are dumping them for the new 720s. The 812 seems like a better buy.

 

Of course you can compare anything, but you really can't compare a Ferrari to a McLaren in terms of retained value, and especially a V12 to a mid engine. I am not knocking McLaren, their cars are very very impressive. But Ferrari has a far more mature market. McLaren probably will get there one day.

I also like seeing the car in the "wild" so to speak and this PS is as close as we will get for now. And it does look good!

 

No I don't think Mclaren will ever get there. Their marketing isn't like Ferrari. With Ferrari, it is clear what they're doing. Mclaren you have no idea. They put the same engines in each car. If a 570S has the same engine as a multi million dollar Mclaren P1 that is a serious problem in my eyes. Just do a tune and next think you know. The baby of the brand on par with you. I'd love to see more of the 812. At least with them I know the direction. But I have yet to see anything top a 675LT in looks.

 

spot on - hence why one Mac purchase is enough

 

Although quite simplified, some of this is a good point.

Still amazing what McLaren have achieved in what, 6 years? And how many new models are they introducing? 15?

 

No impact, yet...
It's also good to notice that when McLaren introduces a new car, it doesn't take long for the deliveries to start. But we're still a good year away from seeing customer's 812.

I have no doubt that, limited edition excluded, the F12 will follow the same depreciation path as any other Ferrari V12 GT. Which is a great thing

 

Very well put. What I think will be interesting to see in terms of McLaren, is how the company will grow up and mature along with their core clientele. As the company matures and the core customer base do, the demands, needs and desires will evolve.

And yes, seeing the car will be very exciting. Looking back, it often strikes me that many tend to see a render or some press photos which they don't like. Then they see the car in the flesh and everything changes. I still need to see the rear end up close, but overall I think it's a nice evolution of the V12 Berlinetta line of cars - and MDEL has dono a marvelous job with those pictures. Thank you for that MDEL.

 

Not sure I follow you here. Ferrari also uses the same basic engines. As I understand it the F140 V12 platform is currently shared between the Enzo, 599 GTB, 599 GTO, F12, F12 TdF, LaF, FF and GTC4. The V8 is shared between the Lusso T, Cali T and 488. Same basic platform, different trim and tuning. I don't know a whole lot about the engine in the P1, but I'm sure a lot of the internals are different between the P1 engine and e.g the 570 engine. To say that a tune is all there's between the P1, 570 or 675 engine for that matter, is as correct as saying that the only difference between the F12B and F12 TdF engine is a tune. Even now the 812 V12 is more powerful than the V12 in the LaF - same PS, but more torque, so where does that leave the TdF and LaF seen in the same light as the P1 vs. the 570, 675 or 650? To me at least, it's a bit of the same.

 

Absolutely. And add the forthcoming common architecture which features, for instance, a shared cockpit structure etc, and the Ferrari models are likely to be even closer together in design.

 

Good points. I realize we are getting a little off topic, but, I always felt it was a huge mistake by McLaren to introduce the 12C first. I felt their best move was to introduce the P1 first and then go down the line. Then the 12C/650S, etc would all seem like true supercar trickle down tech bargains. Instead of the P1 looking a lot like a hotted up version of the 12C (even if thats a gross over simplification).

But the point I wish to add now is McLaren couldn't simply copy what Ferrari is doing, because that's already being done by a real master. So they have to do it their own way. And there are valid criticisms to be made for either the Ferrari or McLaren approach.

I just love Ferrari- but I do respect and appreciate what McLaren is doing.

 

Give them a break they have been doing this for two minutes and its remarkable what they have done. Their mid engined product is far better than Ferrari and I am sure more differentiation will follow - admittedly right now it is 911/Cayman etc but they started in 2011 !!

 

Tricky as in UK the 599 HGTE is JUST below F12 levels so I think there is support for residuals. New 812 will be 325 say with options so at 10/220 F12 is a bargain.

 

Interesting how the HGTE residuals have bounced back. A year ago they were 60% of that value. Still don't understand why you'd buy a 5 year old HGTE when you can buy an F12 for almost same amount - and with 4 years servicing still included


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