How many 458 Italias with original ecu and exhaust crackles? | Page 11 | FerrariChat

How many 458 Italias with original ecu and exhaust crackles?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by 458trofeo, Feb 2, 2017.

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  1. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
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    101 aki
    Shiv, do you offer any security for the customer as in a full or partial refund
    or a free re-flash to the original calibration in the event that the customer is not
    satisfied with the tune, or if something goes wrong?

    Thanks for letting us know! :)
     
  2. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    190
    SF Bay, CA
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    Shiv Pathak
    Yes of course. We offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee with our OFT. If you want to return it during that period, just flash the ECU back to stock and send back the OFT. We will refund the price of the OFT. The only thing that wouldn't be refunded is any shipping expenses (OFT, ECUs back and forth). To go back to stock, there is no need to ship the ECUs back to us. That can all be done at home.

    As for something going wrong, it really depends what that something is. When tuning a car, there is always some risk all parties must be willing to accept. We certainly can't cover things like catastrophic engine failure or other misc damaged caused by mis-use, abuse or even just bad luck. We drive cars that aren't exactly 100% reliable so associating any future problem to an ECU tune isn't sound reasoning. Then again, I have spent most of my professional life tuning small displacing high horsepower turbo cars running 30+psi of boost. So I tend to be pretty careful even on engines that are far less stressed.

    All my tune files are open to customers. So there is never any doubt as to what changes I'm making in the calibration. And the changes I make certainly are NOT changes that would threaten the integrity of the engine or transmission.
     
  3. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Awesome. Thanks!
     
  4. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
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    Thank you for the info Shiv!
    My paranoid self is more at ease :)
    xoxo
     
  5. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    190
    SF Bay, CA
    Full Name:
    Shiv Pathak
    #255 OpenFlash Performance, Feb 25, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. Roupin

    Roupin Formula 3

    Oct 7, 2013
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    Encino
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    Is that under load only or can you get flames on the downshifts too?
     
  7. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    190
    SF Bay, CA
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    Shiv Pathak
    I'm seeing big flames during full throttle upshifts. And also some smaller flames during engine revving (in neutral). I'm sure there are flames during deceleration/downshifting as well. Pops and crackles are really loud without cats. Perhaps a little too loud for my tastes. I might have to make adjustments to the mapping to quiet them down and shorten their duration.
     
  8. kfmcmahon922

    kfmcmahon922 Karting

    Jan 2, 2011
    98
    East Amherst, NY
    Full Name:
    Kevin McMahon
    ^^love it.
     
  9. Roupin

    Roupin Formula 3

    Oct 7, 2013
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    Wow! I predict that pretty soon you're going to be everyones best friend here.
    Seriously, impressive.
     
  10. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    190
    SF Bay, CA
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    Shiv Pathak
    #260 OpenFlash Performance, Feb 25, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
    As promised, here are a couple videos of my car (2010 Italia).

    First video compares my 100% stock car (with factory ECU software update that eliminated burbles in back in 2012) to the same car with just our ECU flash tune (to restore the burbles):

    https://youtu.be/Mbye5pgn938


    This second video shows what happens when you add headers and cat deletes to our ECU tune (still using stock exhaust):

    https://youtu.be/A2Yt0HoeQfs

    I'll be doing similar videos with Mike's 2013 Spider that is being dropped off at the shop this week. I'll also be making some changes to the ECU tune in my car to reduce the volume and duration of the over-run burbles and pops (but still keep them of course). With no cats and our standard ECU tune, the sound and flames just attract too much attention. I'll post videos of that up as well.
     
  11. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    ... Perhaps you've heard this saying:

    "If more is better, then too much is JUST RIGHT!"

    :) :)
     
  12. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

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    #262 458trofeo, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    Where are the pops in the second video? Pretty nice flames though, but these
    are common with decatted systems on the 458.
    You said the pops were too loud with the decat? Hardly so, at least from the video.
    The pops should be much louder with a decat.
    Fyi here are reposts of the original ecu car with 200 cell cats, with decat the pops would be
    even louder, furthermore these vids are not taken with go pro next to the exhaust!
    Clearly when comparing the original ecu to the OFT tune, the pops in the original ecu
    are much more defined and less muffled.
    Perhaps you need to fine tune your fuel map or the like? The present tune is disappointing to me
    as per these videos in regards to the pops.
    That being said, the tune does make the sound very aggressive, congrats on that! :)
    Now we just need more defined and less muffled crackles.
    best


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtjp3o-KXaU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG-OaBbKBFk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZjbXjkIXE4&spfreload=10
     
  13. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

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    Yes!

    More snaps, crackles and pops Shiv!! :D
     
  14. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    190
    SF Bay, CA
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    Shiv Pathak
    #264 OpenFlash Performance, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    I know it's all personal taste, but the car in those videos sounds awful to my ears. To induce backfire that loud, I would need to retard timing 10 deg during deceleration and increase the minimum injector on-time. Basically dump more fuel and retard the spark so that combustion occurs in the exhaust (instead of in the combustion chamber). All easy stuff to do, but is that really the sound that people want?

    BTW, I have never heard an original ECU car sound anything like that. The few I have heard burble and crackle nicely during decel (just like my car does in the first video). But the car in your videos sounds like it has a leaky injector.

    Here's a video of a stock 458 with original software (the video is from 2011). Start watching from the 38 seconds mark as he decelerates and downshifts. It burbles and crackles just like my car does with my ECU flash. It should, they share essentially the same mapping when it comes to deceleration/downshift conditions:
    https://youtu.be/dO4nDvhmQ_g
     
  15. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

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    #265 458trofeo, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    Taste is of course subjective, most people like it. I for one like the extreme sound of the original ecu map,
    most people that are fans of original ecu parameters and would like to emulate them on their cars are too!
    ..and no leaky injectors here LOL.

    As for the new video, all I can hear is wind noise; as a matter of fact I am hard pressed
    to hear any pops or crackles in any video you produced as of yet.

    I suggest you do some more research to get a tune that sounds more like an original
    ecu tune: you seem to be on the right track with the info you posted in the first paragraph.

    Therefore I suggest you:
    - retard timing to 10 deg during deceleration
    - increase the minimum injector on time
    - make a new video with go pro next to the exhaust and valves completely open
    which has the sound that interested people seem to want

    I unf. just don't see much point in getting the tune if the above is not done..

    Very best
     
  16. Doug_S

    Doug_S Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2007
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    I have to agree. This vid sounds like my 2010. The three vids claiming to be unflashed don't sound anything like my car, particularly the last red 458. Since my car sounds nothing like the vid of the flashed car (with silenced pops), I am more confident that mine is unflashed.

    Also I really like the sound, when I arrive at a cars and coffee, there are a lot of very exotic cars but if I have a chance to back off when approaching the entrance, all heads turn.
     
  17. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    YES!!! That is PRECISELY the sound that this person wants.... :)
     
  18. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

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    :)
     
  19. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

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    To add a bit more info: my car has race cats and runs on full tanks
    of 100aki fuel, which mostly explains the pronounced pops, which I
    happen to adore :D

    My concern with the tune at hand is that the car should have louder
    pops if the stock cats have been removed, esp. if it has straight pipes.

    best
     
  20. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
    190
    SF Bay, CA
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    Shiv Pathak
    Thanks for verifying that. I've talked to the owner of a local exotic car rental company here and he also confirmed that their pre-update 458s (that he once had) sound nothing like the videos in the videos that 458trofeo posted.

    Here's another video from 2012 that illustrates this: https://youtu.be/gwVlcgSUO0A
    It's actually more muted that the video I posted because the exhaust valves in the original ECU software are closed during decel. But you can still near the burble (albeit more muffled).

    Here are some other videos showing what original ECU 458 sounds like:
    https://youtu.be/XTurbScHcqY (2009)
    https://youtu.be/WWgiAxJy_4A (2009)

    Nothing like the bangs and pops heard in 458trofeo's videos. And rightfully so, his videos demonstrate severe after-fire which, in small amounts, is harmless. In large amounts (as you hear in the video), it can potentially damage o2 sensors and catalysts depending on which point in the exhaust system the combustion occurs. While it is possible that car has original ECU software, it's unlikely that is the reason for the after-fire. My guess is that it also has a leaky injector or an exhaust leak (allowing oxygen to enter further upstream an initiate the combustion earlier.) Or maybe it's running on fuel with a different burn rate than standard pump gas.

    Regardless, my goal was to restore (and improve upon by keeping the exhaust valves) the the burbles/crackles the original ECU calibration provided. If someone is looking for loud gun shot noises, they are looking for something quite different.
     
  21. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

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    #271 458trofeo, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    Dear Shiv,

    I don't know why the opinionated posts on my car inferring things are wrong with it
    just to justify the frankly somewhat tentative results of the tune.
    Furthermore, you 'verification' sources of what an original ecu should sound like
    seem quite meager and unsubstantiated lol.

    However, as you stated and in all fairness, I do run a slower burning fuel which makes the
    backfires more pronounced.

    My point is that some people, as I, like the extreme sound of a high flow cat system
    when coupled with the original ecu parameters, some don't.
    Several owners that want the dramatic pop sound of the original ecu will opt for a tune that gives it.

    I think one of the main issues might be that the 'original calibration provided' which you are
    referring to might very well be not the original, being that there seems to be no way
    to prove the calibration source at hand is the original as of yet.

    Important: as I have said before my main concern with the tune is that the pops sound very
    muffled even with the race cats and aftermarket headers. This should not be the case if you
    intended to 'restore (...) the original burbles/crackles the original ECU calibration provided';
    if it were indeed the case the backfires would be much louder with a decat, as is the case with
    countless friends of mine's original ecu Italias.

    Therefore, could you kindly post videos of an ecu tuned as per the aforementioned parameters
    (10 deg deceleration, etc..) I am sure you will further increase customer base if you come
    up with a tune that sounds more like the original.

    Also, this will be great info because if you do come up with results that make the
    pops more like the original by modifying specific parameters we will have the precise info as to
    what generates them so as to be able to generate a tune with more
    or less pops depending on what the customer wants (like you might choose to program
    8 deg deceleration instead of 10, or the like..)

    After all, some folks just might be looking for loud gun shots.. why not be able
    to provide these, at least to a variable degree. ;)

    Thank you! :)
     
  22. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    #272 Eilig, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    Here is a short video clip inside a 2010 Ferrari 458 Italia. I can verify with 100.0% CERTAINTY that this car has the ORIGINAL ECU, and original exhaust system:

    https://youtu.be/eRgz87oGA1Q

    If you listen carefully, you will hear gobs and gobs AND GOBS of low-rpm run-on.....

    If the original exhaust system were replaced with the same exhaust system as 458Trofeo's car, and if the same 100 AKI fuel were added to this car, it is my opinion that this car would sound exactly the same as 458Trofeo's car...

    Or, conversely, if 458Trofeo's car still had the original exhaust system, and was NOT running the 100 AKI fuel, his would sound exactly the same as the car in this video...

    This is precisely the way I would want a tune from OpenFlash Performance to sound. It is 100% authentic to the original-ECU 2010/2011 458 Italia. A piece of history, that we're looking to (hopefully) re-create/preserve, through your tune....

    Shiv, can you do it?? :) (I hope, I hope)

    Thanks!!
     
  23. OpenFlash Performance

    Mar 3, 2016
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    Shiv Pathak
    Yes, that was exactly how my car sounded from inside the car when it had it's original headers/cats an our tune. Tons of over-run burble from 2000rpm to 5000rpm during decel. Not the gun shots in 458Trofeo's video.
     
  24. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Hmm, could you perhaps produce a video of your car in it's present form, except from inside the cabin? This may prove more helpful in evaluating the current sound, instead of having the microphone right by the exhaust... Maybe we're not getting the full effect/range of sounds being produced....
     
  25. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

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    Shiv, the issue the concerns me here is that the video you posted running test pipes
    should have much more significant pops, which indeed are more akin to gun shots as
    you describe them; all original ecu cars exhibit these characteristic gun shot or machine-gun
    like long strings of crackles when stock cats are removed.

    The video Eilig posted exhibits the sound of the original ecu crackles when stock as
    from inside the car. It is of course normal that the pops are more muffled with the stock
    system even with original ecu.

    Fwiw here is a video of my car with 100% stock exhaust, albeit running 100 octane, notice how
    defined the crackles are at 0:15 after the throttle blip, even though they are muffled
    by the stock cats.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m63CtW2sAPE

    Which brings me to the following questions:

    Shiv, why do you think that the pops in your tune seem to sound muffled even when
    running test pipes?

    Is there any way to make them at least a bit louder for those who would like
    more crackles?

    Maybe you could do a version of the tune with the aforementioned parameters
    you were stating that would make the crackles more dramatic..
    Could you try this?

    Thanks for your patience!

    Very best
     

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