Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Ah, okay then.

 

Different day does make a difference, never denied it. ACR times of Laguna have varied by 3s from one test to another. Honestly, I suspect the 918 could win at Anglesey Coastal because it's so heavily traction dependent. A Turbo S on PZeros can match a GT3 RS on its '20% stickier' Cup 2s there. It's not really a track that excites me much.

It's road legal that's all that matters, Cup 2s aren't fantastic in the wet either. Neither is regarded as a road tyre, both are listed as track tyres.

And how much of the AMG GTR's lap times are down to Cup 2s, ditto for the Z06? Right now the Trofeo R is literally all Pirelli have that's on par with a Cup 2 and they know it, which is why there is a new Corsa System coming out. I haven't heard anything nice said about Corsa Systems since they first come out and people were comparing them against Cup+. Back then, people said they offered the same grip but lasted longer and were better in the wet. So if they're only a match for Cup+ how can they be a match for Cup 2s?
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/667240-Pirelli-PZero-Corsa-vs-Michelin-Pilot-Sport-Cup

Got to be a reason why Ferrari, an Italian manufacturer, is using French tyres on its 488s instead of Italian ones. And why do you suppose this P1 owner fitted non-standard sized Cup 2s to his P1? Must be something to do with the Corsas being so damn awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVO3pfMwTyc&t=670s

 

Cup 2 is a track tyre too.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin-tires.jsp

3s? More like 2s, based on 1.79s at Portimao (same day test). Add 20% for track length, 2.15s. Meanwhile Cup 2s were 2.4s faster than Cup+ at Jerez. Cup+ is roughly the same as Corsa Systems, so Cup 2 vs Trofeo R is fair much as it pains you.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pilot-Sport-Cup-2-Launched.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkoaijiEKRg

Any option tyre is fair, you don't get to decide what is and isn't fair just because a given car loses.

If the LT had tyres as wide as the SV's, then I'm sure it would just restore the same difference.

 

I'm sure you're just taking the piss now, even you can't be ignorant enough to not see the irony here.

A month ago you argued until you were blue in the face that the LM treatment for the P1GTR was equivalent to the Weissach package for the 918. (which must be the most absurd statement ever made about any car) Now you say that the LM is not even a production car?..

Does this look familiar to you? It seems to be your favourite hobby.
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What irony? When the LFA gets brought, he jumps on the defensive. First up he mentions tyre type and size as an excuse. 265/305 for the LFA, 255/285 for the GTR, 245/315 for the P1. Then he says that it's okay for LFA and GT2 RS not to have lap videos for claimed 'ring times. It's not okay for the P1 to occasionally lose to the 918 and LaF but when a £350k supercar loses to a £50k coupe, he defends it. Full of crap.

I'm saying that you can't count the LFA NRE as a production car and then say the P1 LM isn't.

Nothing but double standards here.

 

I don't know what do you mean but I don't see anyone except you having issues over P1 losing to 918.Nobody said P1 is a slow car or it is a pig.

 

The 488 comes with both tyres.

 

So what's all this 'P3' crap about then?

 

Haven't seen it sent out to compete on Corsas yet though. Must be something to do with the fact they're crap. The standard is Cup 2s, the rest are options.

Cup 2
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/ferrari-488gtb-at-lightning-lap-2016-feature

Cup 2
http://www.germancarforum.com/attachments/08c93ef5d83d785d8cb4682a785d27d9-png.387991/

Cup 2
https://www.motormag.com.au/events/performance-car-of-the-year/1702/ferrari-488-gtb-2017-performance-car-of-the-year

 

i'd say i'm taking a neutral stand here, i didn't say outright that they did it, but whenever a porsche 911 has gone up against the competition it has always managed to punch above its weight. would i like a video of that 7:18 claim, of course, even if it is an overestimated time i still see it doing 7:20-7:25.

i might be biased towards the LFA but unlike you i can admit to my biases instead of acting defensive. i choose to believe akira iida in this situation and in the supertest there were 4 second difference between the two so it adds up in that test too.(7:34-7:38)

do you have any actual data on Cup2 vs Corsa (same driver,track,car), bespokeness can also help to eliminate the differences between off the shelf tyres

 

what about sachering?

 

they were just responding to YOU

 

That's completely irrelevant to your first statement.
Ferrari ships the 488 on either Michelin or Pirelli tyres and that's a fact!!!

The Cup 2 is Michelin's best road legal tyre. Pirelli's best road legal tyre is the Trofeo R. The Trofeo R is the much stickier tyre, but is nigh on dangerous in the wet. The Cup 2 is a better all rounder, at the cost of less ultimate grip in the dry.

 

Oh I'm sorry, I actually gave you the benefit of the doubt... silly me. Or maybe you're just irony impaired. Let me explain.. You are accusing someone of not holding every manufacturer to the same standard, which is the very thing you've been doing for the last 300 pages or so. How can you not see that? You are trying to hail everything Mclaren as the 8th wonder of the world while at the same time bashing everything else to bits by acting like a hypocritic 6-year old.

I actually thought you were smart enough to see that yourself but clearly I was wrong.

Nice try of saving yourself with the LFA - LM comparision as well, too bad it doesn't change anything of what you said though.

I'd tell you to go away but your feet are probably not functional anymore..

 

unbelievable...

 

It is unbelievable. I keep advising people to ignore Lieven/mycroft and not respond to any of his utter nonsense and he will eventually go away. But for whatever reason, they expect to reason with a brick wall, and so continue to engage him. And around and around it goes. Then they get upset.

I'll say this to posters who engage with Lieven: If you are getting upset by Lieven's responses to you, you have no one to blame but yourself. This guy is one of the worst Internet Trolls out there, and he does not give up, no matter how ridiculous his arguments are. So the only solution is to say your peace, then set his name to ignore, and you will have no more problems with him. It has worked wonderfully for me.

 

Agreed. He's a total clown. Tons of great ppl on this forum and a lot don't post because of ppl like him. I set his name to ignore and I enjoy this thread much more now.

 

I just don't respond anymore...

 

And equally whenever a 675LT or P1 has gone up against an SV is has beaten it. And on faster tracks the P1 has faired well against the 918 too. So how is McLaren's claim and leak any different?

Which is identical to me looking at other lap times for the P1, 675LT and SV yes? Exactly the same logic.

I don't but there are a lot of posts on the first two pages of this thread with two GT Open drivers giving their opinions on Trofeos, Cup 2s and Corsa. If you do a search find on those words you will find a great deal. The general consensus is that Cup 2s >> Corsas and Trofeos are maybe slightly faster, when up to temperature but not by a great deal, hence why the P1's result in the Harris test was so impressive.
McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - McLaren Life

And like I said, some people have taken to fitting undersize 305 rears just so that they can use Cup 2s instead of Corsas.

 

Sachensring is the freak of all freak times, 4s faster than Rohrl's previous attempts. I honestly hate Sachensring because the times depend on how much they drive across the grass on corners. Really not a good measure.

But obviously one track is not the same as another track and effort (number of laps) make a big difference on the 'ring. The 'ring is also a long lap so hybrid battery endurance plays a part and I remain convinced that the 918's battery usage rate has changed since the 'ring lap. There was even a whole host of owners saying that it was faster after the update.

 

No, it isn't much stickier, especially when compared to bespoke Cup 2s like those on the Z06 and AMG GTR and GT3 RS/918. Show me an independent same day test to back up your claim, and no the Harris test was neither independent nor same day. The topic is widely discussed here and the consensus is that off-the-shelf Trofeo Rs are only marginally stickier than Cup 2s for a short period when all the variables align but very inconsistent.
McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder (both on Trofeo R tyres) - McLaren Life

Cup 2s are much newer than Corsa Systems and Trofeo Rs.

 

Riddle me this. How is losing some races to similarly priced hypercars the same as losing many races to cars costing 1/7th of the price? If the 918 cost £120k or the P1 cost £5m, then the P1's record against it could be compared to LFA vs GTR.

 

The problem with the ignore feature is that there may be many users like me who login only while posting.So comments will be visible to them.I am sure that many might have put him on ignore.

 

So what does that mean?McLaren never claimed those lap times and there is no reliable source which states the lap times.

I am pretty sure that Evo verifies the time before putting it.Otherwise P1s time would have been entered like 997 GT2 RS.

 

Anyone who has actually tracked these tyres will tell you that the Trofeo R is much stickier.

There is youtube video proof, which seems to be your preferred way of evidence, but somehow you disregard it... Not that I am surprised.